Sorry for asking, but where did the name of M.O.B. and North Holland Hustlers come from? I never heard those names in the game, never saw it in police database and never heard about it from gangsters on the streets. M.O.B. and N.H.H. is the same gang for me, with the same members. Just African-American criminals, just like it was said in CW. --Orto Dogge 22:04, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, North Holland Hustlers were mentioned in LCPD database in Jayvon Simson and Marlon Bridges dosiers. What about M.O.B.?Orto Dogge 22:32, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
I was right. There is only one black gang in the city, according the game data files. There is no M.O.B. at all. Page. Gotta. Be. Deleted.Orto Dogge 15:57, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
I can't agree with you... For example, Gambettis, Messinas, Pavanos etc. are different mobs, aren't they?
But they all come from Italy. Or let's take GSF & Ballas (afro-american as N.H.H and M.O.B). Can they be united? Of course no. (AlSar)
Families of Commission all mentioned in LCPD database. M.O.B. never was mentioned nowhere. This name doesn't even exist. They're just black criminals. --Orto Dogge 16:50, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that it's questionable, but it's obvious that M.O.B and N.H.H is not the same gang. Instead of occupying neighbouring borougs, they control very distant
yes m.o.b, and n.h.h. are different the lcpd database does speak about a firefly projects gang so we should call them the firefly projects gang.
I never heard this name in game so the best variant may be to rename article to 'Firefly Projects Street Gang' or smth like this. (AlSar)
They also spawn in Acter, Northwood, East Holland and North Holland. And in Firefly Projects as well. It's just African-American criminals. Not even Hustlers, because only two notable members of NHH were Marlon and Jayvon. We gotta think about this problem and the name of new article. --Orto Dogge 17:00, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
Well, where the 'M.O.B.' name come from then? Somebody's thoughts? And this phrase depicted in the article?

BTW how you add your name and time after you posts? (AlSar)

There is a button "Signature" above, homeboy.

Look at the history of the article and you will see, that everything started from little article from ONE user, who wrote about gang in Firefly Projects. Somebody found this gang and add info about cars, then weapons, then appearances, then about affiliations and then all GTA community start thinking, that M.O.B. is the real deal! This is insane. Nobody wanna check nothing. And everybody believe, that there are Torres Cartel, Leftwood Hispanic Street Gang, Jewish Mob and M.O.B. in the city. No one know, why Jamaican called Hillside Posse or why Alderney Mob called Pegorino Family. And everybody believe, that there is real Gunthugs MC Clubhouse in Tudor. Insanity. I can't believe that everybody so lazy, than can't check anythyng by himself. --Orto Dogge 17:12, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

Tnx for showing signature, man. So this name is fake and all info is practically 'sucked from a finger'? LOL.
You mean that I can suggest the name "AAGNAWHH" (African-American Gangsters Not Affiliated With Holland Husltlers) and it'll be considered as an official name later.
GTW is not so exact that I thought before. Then article should be renamed, but not deleted. AlSar 17:24, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
Ha-ha, comrade,I understood that you Russian after this "sucked from the finger"! No way other countries have this phrase too! Я тоже русский.)) Рад встретить земляка здесь, тем более настолько заинтересованного.)

M.O.B. as Money Over Bitches was joke of black gangs to disrespecting of real Italian mobsters. Of course everybody believed, that this is the really name, because it came straight from the hood. I think, we need the article about African-American criminals in LC and articles about gang of Clarence Little in East Holland, gang with Jermaine Andrews as a member in Firefly Projects, North Holland Hustlers and little black gang in Acter. --Orto Dogge 17:30, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

I know that you're Russian. Это именно я писал про Раскалова, Петровича и ты мне даже сообщение слал. Ответ наконец прочитай!
Closer to the article: I don't think that many pages will help. I suggest creating "Afro-American Gangs in GTA IV era" just like
It should bear a link to NHH page and state some info about EHH and MOB, noting inofficiality of MOB's name AlSar 17:51, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
Look at Jermaine Andrews file in the LCPD Database. It just called it "African-Americans in the Broker" or something. I'd check it out myself, but I don't have access to my PS3 right now. And the name "M.O.B." is said by some members of the gang ("What does M.O.B. stand for anyways?"), but it doesn't neccesarily mean that this is the gang's name. GTA: Chinatown Wars just calls the gang "African-Americans". -- Master Sima Yi 06:18, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

M.O.B. is just an abbreviation in black people community. And african-americans everywhere in the city can say this. So, may be I missed something, but what did you mean? Dosier of Jermaine says "African-American Street Gangs in Firefly Projects".--Orto Dogge 11:21, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

New name

After playing online for a while I have found that the same models that appear in Firefly Projects, and Acter are the same ones used for the Jamaican Gang in Turf Wars. MOB was not a good name, and Firefly Projects Gang wasn't explanatory enough for both territories. The current name could redirect to either Jamaicans, or Jamaican Gang and could have a disambig message (not to be confused with the Hillside Posse which should remain.) --Gta-mysteries 07:57, June 18, 2010 (UTC)I

It's clear enough that they're Afro-Americans, that's why they can't be of Jamaican origin. Then, they don't have ties with Hillside Posse which would be logical Multiplayer models are not exact, just to represent gangstersAlSar 08:45, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not saying that multiplayer can be exact, but in this case it is. Look at the Russian Mafia. Same models, and the Jamaicans are for the ones you would find in Acter. At some point it was in the article but got erased. I'm not saying the Jamaicans in Alderney have connections with the Hillside Posse, just that they have similar names. --Gta-mysteries 22:10, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Why not just name the article to "African Americans", like they are referenced to in GTA: Chinatown Wars? It is the only given name in any of the games. We shouldn't make one up ourselves when there already is one just because the given one is "unfitting" or whatever. -- Master Sima Yi 16:09, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

African Americans are an ethnicity, not a gang. The current name is fine. Cerebral plague 17:42, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

I know African Americans is an ethnicity, but they are listed like that in the gang list. And your personal opinion is that the current name is fine, but it isn't a fact. The guys who hang out in North Holland, East Holland and Acter are the same guys as these. -- Master Sima Yi 08:11, July 4, 2010 (UTC)


M.O.B is their name, as clearly seen in Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars. Chimpso (Talk) 08:42, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Could you show us where that is said? -- Master Sima Yi 08:43, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
When you play the Drug Dealing mini game, they are referred to as the M.O.B when the player receives e-mails and deals with them. I have known them to alwys be M.O.B. Chimpso (Talk) 08:47, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
Could you show us a picture or something showing that? Because all I see is "African Americans". -- Master Sima Yi 08:50, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
I think he is referring to "The Mob," I played all of the games thoroughly, and repeatedly. The African American gangsters in Chinatown Wars are just "African Americans," while the unspecified Italian criminal organization(I don't want to say mafia, because made men do not peddle drugs on the streets) are referred to as "The Mob." If you would just pay closer attention to details, you would notice that "The Mob" have common Italian names. Also, the only reference in the entire continuity of the current GTA4 universe to "M.O.B." is a random African American criminal saying "Does the B stand for Bullshit or Bitches?" D16x 08:53, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
Someone already changed all the names on the articles. But if I remember correctly, it is mentioned somewhere in the drug dealing e-mails sent to the player during the game. But you may be right, they may be referring to "The Mob" (have not played CW in a long time, so I may be wrong). Chimpso (Talk) 08:58, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Look at this video. The first name was in GTA IV. The NHH is in the Firefly Projects. And was the original MOB the gang with the overweight African Americans? Because I've seen other black gangsters. Here are some pictures:

And which platform do you have GTACW for Chimpso? And which one do you have Master Sima Yi? The platforms could be differing.

--Gta-mysteries Talk 08:40, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

I have both the NDS and PSP versions. The NDS version shows them as "Jamaicans" while the PSP version shows them as "Yardies". As the PSP version is the latest, I guess Rockstar changed the gang's name as they weren't satisfied with the older one. -- Master Sima Yi 17:59, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Depending on the actual name this article may need to be split. Which one came first wasn't it the NDS? And was the M.O.B. grouping all three gang types together?--Gta-mysteries Talk 18:06, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Nintendo DS version came out first, you can actually research all that information within the site. M.O.B. isn't a real name, it's something that a random criminal says, "Does the b stand for bitches or bullshit?" M.O.B. is an old term originally made popular by 2pac, which means Money Over Bitches. Before 2pac, it meant "Member Of Bloods." M.O.B. is more of a gang slogan along the lines of an outlaw MCs "FOOF" which would be "Forever Outlaw Outlaw Forever." M.O.B. isn't a name, more of a chant. The only name they are ever given is "African Americans."D16x 15:41, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Guys there called M.O.B. i have seen wall griffiti in firefly projects were they can be found and so far twice i've seen 2 that said M.O.B. not to metioned the gang memebers actually talk about it in gruops on the courts.

Looking at it the wrong way. Gangs are not this linear.

You guys are looking at the gangs in GTA IV incorrectly. This isn't the GTA 3 era. Rockstar purposely made it difficult to identify the gangs in GTA IV. They are ment to be rigid, random, and very non-linear and non-cliche. This is because it is more realistic. gang members even associate and hang around regular pedestrians and other gangs from oppsoite neighborhoods - making it very difficult to identify rhem.

As for the MOB, no such gang exists. Rockstar made a gang with no name because it is more realistic this way. It makes them appear more numerous and realistic. The african americans in acter are technically completely different to those in North Holland. The ones in north holland are technnically different to those in Firefly projects. The North Holland Hustlers in the games story arc are completely different to those found on the streets, The fact that they have the same skins is just a matter of convenience for rockstar.

What rockstar was getting at was; The african americans could be a number of thousands of different gangs throughout Liberty City. Hell, even a group of african americans in firefly projects might be completely different to another group in firefly projects. This adds to the realism. In reallife new york, a single neighborhood can have various pockets of different gang members. The NHH are a story-only gang and have no influence on the streets outside of the story arc.

the only gangs in the game that are identifiable, rigid, cliched, and linear are those in the story (eg mafia, McReary mob, albanian mob, North Holland hustlers etc). Even if some of the skins are the same, the ones on the street are not.

What we should be asking is, which neighborhoods have a higher concentration of gangs - not which gang is which. Leave that to the story arc-only gangs like the NHH or the mafia.

HardCheeseSensei27 (talk) 23:56, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

Change Name

Can this pages name be changed to M.O.B.? African Americans is a race, not a gang. Boomer8 (talk) 05:05, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

^^^I agree. African Americans is a terrible name. What happened to M.O.B??? Thats what they were called and even the members on the streets called themselves that. And I'm pretty sure the police database stated that too. The African Americans in Chinatown wars was just a general term for African American drug dealers. Name should be changed back to M.O.B. This makes no sense. How do we even know that black drug dealing group from Chinatown wars was the same group as M.O.B from IV???~Strangle hold

They were never stated as M.O.B. in Police Database, so the name is not legit. The name of gang in game was Firefly Projects Gang, so article should be renamed. Orto Dogge (talk) 22:56, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

Big Changes in Article (need other people's approval)

I want to discuss with respected editors of GTA Wikia a delicate matter of renaming and rewriting the article about African-Americans. It was me, who first pointed out the fact, that there is no such gang as M.O.B. in LCPD Database. The article was renamed to African-American (like in CW), but became a bit messy. Now I want to remind you, fine people, the facts we know about African-American Gangs in LC and suggest to rewrite the article. Of course this is too big decision for me alone to make, so I want to hear all your suggestions and arguments. But please, let's not turn discussion into the poll. This is not about what we want, but about what is right and correct. GTA Wikia is the unique project with the most legit information. We should keep it this way, and we can't afford the luxury of well-sounded speculation.

So, what do we know. First, there is no Big Black Gang around Liberty City, only the small ones. LCPD Record of Jermaine Andrews confirms that, tying him only with "African American gangs in Firefly Projects", not any specific organisation. Some of this gangs, however, we know by name, such as North Holland Hustlers, who mentioned in Jayvon Simson and Marlon Bridges records. Please, also notice, that they are not mentioned in records of Playboy X and Dwayne Forge, so we don't have proofs of these two being in the gang, but this will be mentioned later.

Also, we know about East Holland Drug Gang, which is mentioned in record of Clarence Little. Please also notice, that this isn't THE NAME of the gang, but merely specification, because "drug gang" wasn't wrote with capital letters. Anyway, I find it appropriate to use this name as the name of an article, because this is the only official name we know.

Next, M.O.B. There is no such gang in LCPD Database, but people claiming they heard about it from pedestrians' coversations and found graffiti with this name in Firefly Project. I don't have any reasons to not believe in their words, so M.O.B. is probably the real gang. The question is, how large is it and what it includes. I think, that if police doesn't even know it by name, the gang isn't that big and obviously the whole article about African-American Gangs can't be named after it. M.O.B. graffiti can only be found in Firefly Projects, so I guess it's just one of the few small gangs in the neighborhood. There are few of them, according to record of Jermaine Andrews.

All African-American gangsters have the same pedestrian models, even North Holland Hustlers and East Holland Drug Gang. They're just, can I say, ghetto hustlers, just black criminals, obviously not major crime syndicate or organised unit. This is very obvious and legit information, but if you have something to doubt it, please, share it here and I'll be very glad to discuss it.

So, my main offer is to rewrite the article in The Families manner. We will write about it as about one big gang with it's many independent sets, such as, let me remind you: North Holland Hustlers, East Holland Crew, probably M.O.B. and others. In the sections of North Holland Hustlers and East Holland Crew we will give a link to the full articles. In the sections of other gangs, we will describe them with proofs of their existing and probable affiliations with known characters.

Liberty City isn't Los Santos, it doesn't have linear large gangs with color scheme and bloody rival. It's just many kids, who want to make money, as we can see on examples of such young leaders as Playboy X or Clarence Little. They're all independent organisations without strong hierarchie, focused on car jacking and drug dealing. Even Playboy X, who took over drug trade in North Holland and tried to get involved in real-estate business, immediately found rivals in young North Holland Hustlers organisation, which even has lieutenants such as Marlon Bridges. And they're obviously not in the same organisation with Playboy X, because otherwise they won't be rivals.

The perfect name for the article will be "African-American Gangsters", since in the police database it's called "African-American Gangs". We can't use the name "African-American Gangs", because it's already the name of the section in article about all gangs in GTA, and also this is the title in the list of all gang in HD Universe. We can use the name "African-Americans", just like it is in "Chinatown Wars", but I find it a little bit offensive for our dear African-American guests in this Wikia, because this is ethnicity and not the gang. In "Chinatown Wars" developers said African-Americans, when talking specifically about drug dealers. We're talking about the name of article about gang, so I think, that "African-Americans" is not the option. So, as I said, the best choice in my opinion will be "African-American Gangsters".

So, this is all I have to say. I need approval of other editors of GTA Wikia and the opinion of administrators, patrollers and other personnel would be good to see too.

Thank you very much for reading all this. I think this is very important to keep this Wikia from speculations.

Orto Dogge (talk) 16:11, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

I just did some research on African-American Gangsters and now I'm certain: there is no such gang as M.O.B. Black criminals mention this abbreviation in dialogues just ONCE, saying exactly: "M.O.B. might stand for Money Over Bitches or Money Over Bullshit". That's the one and only mention of this notorious abbreviation and it doesn't even mean, that this is the gang's name. It's just typical abbreviation in black criminal's underworld, one of many. And graffiti tag "M.O.B." can't be taken seriously as the gang's name, because there are plenty of different graffitis all over Liberty City, that doesn't mean, that every single one of them stands for some gang. There is, for example, big and bright graffiti "Vice Squad", which looks like a typical gang's name way more that "M.O.B.", but still we can't be certain that this is some gang in Liberty City wnamed "Vice Squad".
So let's keep the name M.O.B. out of discussion in future. We have only three mentions of African-American gangs: "North Holland Hustlers", "East Holland Drug Gang" and "African-American gangs in Firefly Projects". If you know any more new names mentioned in the game, please, share the knowledge below.
Thanks in advance, Orto Dogge (talk) 21:39, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

New name

I've asked staff member Mikey Klebitz to rename article from "African-American Gangsters" to "Hustlers" for reasons, that presented below:

  1. This is somehow legit and official, since Rockstar called black gangsters Hustlers in the name of North Holland Hustlers.
  2. This is short and common term for black criminals in LC, since they are really hustlers, being separately and independently involved in all types of criminal activities, such as drug dealing, pimping, burglaries and carjacking.
  3. The word can be used to describe ethnicity criminals, since this is possible, but hard to reference Russian criminal, or Hispanic criminal by the word "hustler". It somehow belongs to African-American at the moment.
  4. It would look good at the other pages, just like Yardies or Rednecks. It won't look too official and eh... Cumbersome. You'll just be referencing to random hustler, who appear to be the part of the gang according to the game's files. Like: "Niko has to eliminate Hustlers who hang aroung the garages in Bohan" or "Hustlers can be identified by flashy hip-hop clothes...". It's more than just made up name, it really suits them.

I'm still confused about it, but I guess it's better than contrastically officious "African-American Gangsters", which doesn't suit the style of other gangs.

If you want to say your opinion about the new name — you're welcome.

Orto Dogge (talk) 20:00, March 19, 2014 (UTC)

The word/slang "Fam". 

I just want to point out; because I've seen it in the trivia, that "Fam" is not a reference to the Families in GTA 5. "Fam" is a word or slang that is commonly used by African-Americans in urban settings, especially here in NY(where I'm from). Its very common for youth here in NYC to use the slang to refer to a friend.

"a word use to describe your peoples. ones that you can trust dearly. someone you consider family"

""FAM means "Family""

In the context that the African-American gang from Firefly projects is using it, they are not refering to the Families. And I doubt during the making of GTA IV that R intended that, instead R was just going for realistic dialogue used in the inner city settings of NYC... ~Strangle hold

I absolutely agree and it probably didn't require the above elaborate explanation, but thanks for providing it anyway.

p.s. I cleaned up your copy&pasted quotes using the {{quote}} template. smurfy (coms) 22:46, May 15, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks :) Mobsta 22:16, May 16, 2015 (UTC)Strangle hold 

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