Talk: Manual of Style/Vehicles

Good idea

Good idea creating this manual of style, it will help users who are interested in cars. :) Dodo8 ^Talk

I agree!

Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 09:16, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

The issue of customised vehicles

I'm not really keen on heading down the road of custom vehicles. I would rather just keep the articles concerning the stock model and special occurrences that other characters use.

I would like to try and maintain a more neutral and formal style by not including modified vehicles. I would like to cite Wikipedia as an example of the sort of formality I would like to aim for, but stick to this wiki's original style where possible.

I'm not sure if we should include a "modifications" section on the upcoming articles, hopefully discussing this now will give us enough time to create a solution and structure if need be. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 11:57, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

Daylight Opening (DLO)

Somewhere along the line in my automotive and transport design degree I learned that what we commonly refer to as a "greenhouse", is broken into DLO and roofline in design terms. I do not wish to complicate design sections any further, so will not be introducing any more terminology of this kind, but it has at least been acknowledged here. If anybody would want these terms included, then persuasive comments should follow. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 07:03, October 25, 2014 (UTC)

Updates required and proposed

This MoS hasn't kept pace with GTAV and its enhanced version and the updates to infoboxes and trivia sections that have become the norm. Pre-modified versions of vehicles can now spawn naturally. 1st person mode introduced increased interior level of detail. Proposed changes:

Format

The standard format that shall be used for all new vehicle articles created after dd mmmm yyyy is as follows. Under Heading 2 (heading 3 for insets), the following sections must be created in this order;

• (No headings required for opening section). Necessary maintenance templates such as {{unreleased}}, {{stub}} or {{cleanup}} along with the vehicles infobox {{Infobox vehicles}} containing a front quarter image (of the most up-to-date version of the vehicle where available) and a rear quarter image linked. Beside the infobox should be a single sentence introducing the vehicle; it's full name (manufacturer part of full name should be kept separate for vehicles that have appeared in games that did not have manufacturer designations), body style and the title(s) that it appears in. {{quote}} from the in-game online dealership that sells the vehicle.

• Design
• Design & Performance Gallery {{Vehicle Design Gallery}} (see below)
• Design History Gallery {{Vehicle Design History Gallery}} with all prior game version images.
• Performance

• • Overview {{Vehicle Stats}}

• Special occurrences (if any)

Repeat the above for multi-generation vehicles appearing in the same game or where a variant alters any of the above significantly enough to warrant it.

• Locations (with game appearance sub-headings)

• Modifications (GTA SA and/or GTAV customs shop table of modifications)

• Appearance/Special/Modification Gallery

• Trivia (with game appearance sub-headings)

• • Cultural references

• • Notable owners (if any)

• Navigation

Notes: Design and Performance gallery (see my sandbox for testing examples):

Front Quarter	Top view (face vehicle left)	Rear Quarter
Front aspect	Side aspect (face vehicle left)	Rear aspect
Engine bay	Underside view (face vehicle left) (Drivetrain model)	Inside from exterior (Driver's door open)
Detail - Badging	Detail - Badging from photo Damage modelling	Interior 1st person (enhanced version)

A second gallery to show anything other than stock in game appearance, including special (e.g. unique NPC owned variants), Spawn locations, liveries, video trailer and promotional screenshots, billboards and advertising, naturally spawned modified versions etc).

Content

Each of these sections requires content, whilst maintaining neutrality and third-person perspective for content;

1. Design sections should include, at the beginning a short paragraph outlining the vehicle's real life inspiration(s).  An individual paragraph for design of the front, side (including roof) and rear of the vehicle. Making a total of four paragraphs. 
2. Performance sections should include a headed overview, to give readers quick access to statistics about the vehicle. Prior to the overview, the section should include a netural review paragraph referring to how the vehicle handles, its speed/ acceleration and construction and deformation, in the context(s) that are relevant to the vehicle.
3. Gallery sections should include images of the vehicle in 'stock' condition. Each exterior image should be a quarter view and only one quarter view is needed for the rear as the infobox will have the front quarter. An interior shot and engine shot will also be accepted, along with images of 1st person LOD of the interior, badging detail and extracted badging/texture images from the game files, front, side, back, top and bottom "elevation" views making a total of no more than 12 (more if a roadster version exists) images in the gallery. Each image must adhere to the image policy and not include watermarks or markings.
4. Special Occurrences - these are commonly occurring versions of the vehicle that appear without player intervention; vehicles that are driven by other characters or appear exclusively in missions. A gallery with a front quarter view and link to rear quarter view in the caption should conclude this section. Images for these variants should be included in the main page gallery rather then the Design and Performance gallery above. In the case that many permutations (x > 5) can be obtained from one mission or activity, only one example should be given.
5. Locations divided into each game appearance are also in bullet-point format, including areas where the vehicle is driven by other characters and parked locations.
6. Trivia sections divided into each game appearance are in bullet-point format and shall include radio information, errors or unique features that the vehicle may have. Cultural reference sections will be used if the vehicle has any connection to media, language or culture in any way.
7. Navigation sections should include the relevant navboxes, but should only be added after text has been added to all of the lead infobox categories, (so that editors can easily add new categories to the lead infobox without wrecking it; the navboxes disable the visual editor).

Forgot to sign...  smurfy ^(coms) 02:19, December 22, 2014 (UTC)

Update after testing and gallery template construction

Testing on one of the most complex vehicle pages (the Banshee) and a simple page (the Elegy RH8) in my sandbox... (Banshee with new MoS) and (RH8 with new MoS) revealed that the Design gallery really needs to appear above the Performance section for logical continuity.  smurfy ^(coms) 08:43, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

Multiple similar models

How do we determine whether to combine on a single page or split?

This is the cause of much debate on the wiki and there should be some rules specified around what criteria must be met for a vehicle to have a unique page as opposed to being a variant or generational update on a single vehicle page.

Proposal

I propose a relatively simple qualification criteria, to have their own page, a vehicle must satisfy ALL of the following conditions in at least one game in the series:

1. Have a different name in-game. It can't just be a name players use to differentiate between two vehicles that have been named identically by Rockstar. (e.g. At time of writing: Yes = Buffalo and Buffalo S, Sentinel and Sentinel XS, Oracle and Oracle XS. No = Cavalcade, Baller)
2. Have a noticeably different design. Different accessories or Hard-top/Sof-top do not qualify as design changes.
3. Have a performance difference from one another, this can be speed/handling or durability.
4. Have a different $ value in-game. 
5. (optional) The different models appear in the same game title.
6. (optional) The game has classified the vehicles in the same group.

A vehicle that doesn't have all of these should not be split. A vehicle that does have these CAN be split (although it may not be compulsory since some may still qualify as variants).

This proposal is completely open to discussion and debate here and I will be delaying the above updates to the MoS until we can reach a consensus.

I'm going to set out a table of some examples to assist in determining how well this proposal would work in practice. smurfy ^(coms) 02:53, March 23, 2015 (UTC)

Table

NOTE: An appearance on this table does not indicate any opinion on the part of the author.

Vehicle(s)	Current	1: Name	2: Design	3: Perf.	4: Value	5: Same game	6: Class	Result
Sentinel, Sentinel XS	Split	Yes	Soft-Top	Yes	Yes	Yes	Coupe	No
Oracle, Oracle XS	Split	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Coupe	Yes
Buffalo, Buffalo S	Split	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Sports	Yes
Baller, Baller Sport	Variant	No	Yes	No	No	Yes	SUV	No
Mesa, Merryweather Mesa	Split	No	Raised with accessories	Yes	Yes	Yes	SUV/Off-road	No
Cavalcade, Cavalcade 2,	Variant	No	Yes	No	Yes	Yes	SUV	No
Cavalcade, Cavalcade FXT	Split	Yes	Pick-up variant	No	?	IV	N/A	No
Sultan, Sultan RS	Split	in IV	Yes	Yes	?	IV	N/A	Yes
Felon, Felon GT	Split	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Coupe	Yes
Rancher, Rancher XL	Split	Yes	Same design, however, the XL is a 4-door SUV	Rancher XL has a Diesel engine instead of a gasoline one	N/A	No	N/A	Yes
Bobcat, Bobcat XL	Variant	Yes	Longer wheelbase	No	N/A	No	N/A	No
Sandking SWB, Sandking XL	Variant	No	Longer wheelbase	No	Yes	Yes	Off-road	No
Blista, Blista Compact	Split	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Compacts/Sports	Yes
Dukes, Duke O'Death	Split
Kuruma, Kuruma Armored	Variant
Rat Loader, Rat-Truck	Variant	Yes	No	Slightly	Yes	Yes	Muscle	No
Sabre, Sabre Turbo	Split
Zion, Zion Cabrio	Variant
Washington, Stretch, Romero	Split
Huntley, Huntley Sport, Huntley S (See also: Baller)	Split
Dubsta, Dubsta 6x6	Split
Burrito, Gang Burrito	Split
Speedo, Clown Van	Split
Stockade, Securicar	Variant
Rebel, Technical	Split	Yes	Only a turret in the back	No	Yes	Yes	Off-road	Yes

Discussion

Right away, you can see a potential issue with the Sentinel and Sentinel XS which never meets the design difference criteria in 3D or HD universe versions. smurfy ^(coms) 03:08, March 23, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think I want to get involved with this but here is the important details;

• Buffalo and Buffalo S: The S is an updgraded facelift variant of the Buffalo, therefore they should be one page; variants
• Oracle XS and Oracle Sport: Again, the Sport is an upgraded version of the XS, or a second generation; variants
• Zion and Zion Cabrio: Convertible and coupe; variants
• Rancher and Rancher XL: The XL is a larger version of the pickup and 4X4 variants; variants
• Sentinel and Sentinel XS: They do seem like variants of one another, the XS is a hardtop; variants
• Sultan and Sultan RS: RS (Rally Sport) is an off road racer variant of the Sultan; variants
• Mesa and Merryweather Mesa: The latter is just an updgraded version for use by a private militia
• Cavalcade, Schafter, Baller; all different generations
• Looking at the details of all these cars makes me think, they're all variants. Having separate pages just seems like a bad idea. Leon Davis (talk)

In some ways I actually agree with you Leon, and laying the car(d)s out in the table in one discussion is revealing just how inconsistent we have been up 'till now. The final outcome of this whole discussion could quite easily be "No splits allowed", let's merge a heap of pages.  smurfy ^(coms) 03:41, March 23, 2015 (UTC)

I guess the main aim is to try to avoid future debate by setting an official policy in place. Of course this can also demonstrate the futility of trying to impose order, consistency and logic on something that Rockstar themselves have been extremely inconsistent with. One size may not fit all. We could end up with 5 or 6 criteria and a 4/6 score may be enough.  smurfy ^(coms) 03:54, March 23, 2015 (UTC)