Talk:Vercetti Gang

Vercetti crime family
Think it is a crime family, and non Italian guys like Lance Vance and Ken Rosenberg, was just high ranked associates, like  Moe Schwartz 'from the'  Lupisella Family.

I agree with you 100% plus by now i bet the administration is all italian i mean Tommy Purged his entire leadership probably Well he killed Lance and then, kicked Rosenburg probably out to hire italians to help him out-- ᄃӨӨӨᄂ31 ҂ Talk to the asperger syndrome atheist   03:00, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

I disagree as the gang is made up by the remains of Diaz' gang whose guys are Colombians... Jeansowaty 17:17, November 12, 2013 (UTC)Jeansowaty

Technically, Mike was a bodyguard of Diaz and Mike is not a Italian so doesn't he count as an associate.

TheSnake2 (talk) 02:45, December 10, 2013 (UTC)

"Crew from the south"
The crew from the south mentioned by Lester Crest in Casing the Jewel Store are not Vercetti Gang.

 kamikatsu_  (Talk ) 06:26, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Vercetti Gang is not a heist crew. They also didn't made an appearance in the only heist that happened in the game.
 * It couldn't be a reference to Tommy's "heist crew" neither, as at least two members died during the heist (Cam Jones and Hilary King) and the only one remaining lost his arm right after the heist.
 * Vice City is far east from San Andreas, not south.
 * They don't exist in the current canon.


 * Please explain to me how the crew Lester mentions could be the Vercetti gang. Lester is a cyber busybody who is affiliated with hundreds of individual criminals and dozens of heist crews and other small criminal groups consisting of a few friends or such, meanwhile the Vercetti gang is a Mafiaesque crime organisation with dozens of members that partakes in legal fronts, money laundering, counterfeiting money and other high-rank crimes like that. Why would Lester mention THEM of all people in reference to heist? Why would he suggest the Vercetti gang as a possible participator in a small-time jewellery heist? Not only that, but Lester says "the crew from the south". You must have zero geography knowledge. The reason people in Liberty City describe Vice City as "down south" is because it's south in relation to Liberty City. Look up "USA states map" on Google and examine it. Florida is south from New York. But Michael is from the midwest, particularly North Yankton which is mostly likely based on North Dakota. If Lester called it a crew from "the south" he likely meant a crew from Southern North Dakota or perhaps a state that's south of North Dakota such as Texas or Oklahoma. Or if you want to keep in Los Santos, Vice City would fall on the east, not the south. Where the hell did you get this odd, nonsensical vibe that he meant the Vercetti gang? How can you be this dumb?
 * Ondatti&#39;s Nightmare (talk) 07:23, 21 February 2021 (UTC)


 * oh no, he gone and locked the page without even talking to us. This is just like the Pavel/Vlad thing a few months ago. Oh well, something to talk about in the gtaforums thread I guess. - Universetwisters (talk) 08:14, 21 February 2021 (UTC)


 * If I may add to this, I also think this is quite a stretch. At the very, very least, this could be a reference to Tommy's crew set up for The Job, and even though Tommy already had his gang at that point iirc, the rest of the team wasn't part of it as far as I know. Even if it is a reference to this particular group, this trivia point shouldn't be on this specific page just because Tommy is the gang's leader and the other three are loose, one-time hired guns for this. And this to me as a whole falls somewhat on speculation, whatever it references to, I do not think we have the sufficient information to actually confirm it; in comparison to the Niko Bellic reference, Lester's "south crew" line feels way, way looser to pinpoint exactly. -- User:Raziel Reaper ( Talk To Me &bull; Edits ) 11:29, 21 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree with Raziel. At a stretch it may be a reference to the Vercetti Gang, as Florida can be referred to as "the South" regardless of where in the US a person is (e.g. Deep South) but it's still not specific enough. The other mentions of characters (Eastern European, "Irish crazies" etc.) are more specific. Sam Talk 11:40, 21 February 2021 (UTC)


 * It could be a reference, but the Vercetti Gang was never involved in The Job. So if it's considered a reference it should be about the crew composed of Phil Cassidy, Cam Jones, Hilary King and Tommy Vercetti.
 * It also very vague and it's way better mentioned in the Casing the Jewel Store article:
 * "Lester then mentions "that crew from the south" (a possible reference to Grand Theft Auto: Vice City)" - NalexandruN (stalk)/(mock) 12:19, 21 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Correcting myself - It could be a nod to Tommy's heist crew from The Job - not Vercetti Gang, the gang wasn't even involved in the bank heist. But it wouldn't make sense for Lester to mention a random small crew who did only one score in their whole career (and disbanded right after that), that happened almost 30 years ago in the game's timeline. Better yet... in another universe's timeline. It could be just a foreshadow to the next GTA, who knows.  kamikatsu_  (Talk ) 16:42, 21 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's a reference to the next GTA. If anything it would be more likely to refer to the Vercetti Gang as Rockstar have had instances where 3D events are mentioned in HD games, but still a push. Sam Talk 19:02, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

(indent reset) When people say "the south" or "deep south" they usually refer to states that are associated with redneck and country stereotypes such as Texas, Tennessee or Alabama. While Florida is traditionally part of the southern US, when people refer to it on its own, they usually just say Florida because Florida is very distinct from the other southern states in terms such as culture, economy and more. It's too unique to be collectively referred to with the rest of the south. Regardless, like I mentioned, someone as nosey and knowledged as Lester would not refer to a powerful crime organisation as a mere "(heist) crew". It doesn't make any sense in the context he was aiming for. Regardless of whether what this editor says is true or not, he's certainly being very unpressional in his conduct. A responsible person would actually discuss it and hear conflicting opinions out before editing in info as fact. And he would be open-minded about it rather than going into an edit war then ignoring all to lock the page out of frustration. What kind of bureaucrat acts that way? Ondatti&#39;s Nightmare (talk) 19:39, 21 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Hell, at this rate why don't we mention that Moses can't be part of the heist because he's busy parting the red sea? - Universetwisters (talk) 19:44, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay while I took a time-out overnight.

I am taking this line in context with the entire piece of dialogue, not in isolation. During Casing the Jewel Store, Lester responds to Michael's request to get a crew together. He explains their own crew (Moses) no longer exists and then goes through a list of potential recruits, all of which are references to other protagonists or protagonist-allied groups:
 * The actual reference to the "gang from the south"


 * The Irish crazies - McRearys
 * The eastern European making moves in Liberty City - Niko Bellic
 * Currently working with someone too unpredictable - The GTA Online protagonist
 * The crew from the south that went down - ??

Florida and Miami (Vice City) is, by every geographical and definition, in the south of the USA. As far as cities go, it is the southernmost metropolitan area (about equal with Brownsville in Texas). The Florida Keys at less than 25° N is the southernmost latitude in the entire continental USA. Sure it is also on the east coast but it is no further east than Charlotte, NC, Pittsburg PN, or even Cleveland OH. No matter where you are in the continental USA, Vice City would be further south than you, so yes, most definitely south. Now, no HD Universe game has (so far) had anything to do with "the south". So for the writers to include a reference to the south in this dialogue, it is either: The scriptwriters have not been shy making reference to the 3D universe elsewhere (The Ballas and Jimmy/Franklin referencing GSF for example) so there is no reason to exclude the possibility of this being a reference to GTA VC simply because it was a prior universe. Now it could be taken as a future hint too, but in my opinion, that is far more speculative than claiming it as a reference to Vercetti's gang.
 * The south or the east?
 * The Universes question?
 * 1) a reference to the 3D Universe.
 * 2) a hint at the location of GTANext.

Considering at the time this dialogue is first heard (game release day 1), the GTA Online player hadn't actually done any heists either (the Heists update later ret-conned that in) I think this argument is pretty much moot. But, the GTA heist concept was introduced in The Job and the crew that carried out that heist under Tommy's leadership are correctly listed in the Vercetti Gang members list as associates. Therefore, yes, Tommy's crew/gang are most definitely a heist crew.
 * Is the Vercetti gang a heist crew?

/rebuttal Smurfy: illuminate - communicate - spectate 23:37, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Hopefully my formatting doesn't break or anything with my reply/counter;


 * Re. The actual reference to the gang from the south = It seems like the groups Lester are mentioning, sans Niko and the GTA Online protagonist, are ones known to the two that they possibly worked with in the past, since he doesn't have to explain to Michael who Moses is like he does Niko and the GTA:O protag. Much like the "Irish Crazies" that went down, since Lester doesn't have to explain to Michael who's who, either someway somehow the McRearys flew out to the Midwest to do a job (which might not be the case since Packie doesn't remember Michael if they meet ingame and why would a close knit Irish crime family help with a heist out in the midwest? But this is a discussion for another topic) or he's refering to another group of Irish criminals. The McRearys aren't the only criminals who just so happen to be Irish. Anyway back to the point, Lester mentions the crew from the south casually and Michael doesn't ask "who tf are they". Like what was mentioned before, they could just be another crew from a southern midwestern state.


 * Re. The universes question? = It's a bit of a stretch to assume that the only reason the south was mentioned absolutely has to be a reference to something past or present. GSF being mentioned by Jimmy & Franklin doesn't seem like a fair comparison to make since gang life is supposed to be turbulent and constantly changing; gangs gain and lose territories on a semi regular basis, gangs rise and gangs fall, etc. etc. it doesn't seem too out of the ordinary to speculate that Grove St. was once part of the Families and so forth. And yeah, you can say that "If these SA gangs exist in the HD Universe why cant the Vercetti gang" to which I'd say fair argument, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Lester & Michael worked with the Vercetti gang, as...


 * Re. Is the Vercetti gang a heist crew? = I'd argue that they're not. Sure, they pulled off a singular heist, albeit two years before Michael began his robbery career according to the Paleto heist. Not only that but, considering how anal Lester is about not working with amateurs, Lester & Michael probably wouldn't want to work with a crew where the driver and, for the sake of argument, safe cracker got killed. Especially when surely there are several more competent criminals in the midwest where they are, like the "Irish Crazies" in my example a couple of points above. Furthermore, Tommy and the others don't seem like they fit the bill as a heist crew. Not only is there no dialogue or implications within the game stating that they want to rob more banks, but also it's kinda hard to keep up that appearance when everything goes to shit; Phil let the hostages hit the panic button, Hillary got shot, Cam did too just for the sake of argument (especially since there's no penalty for him dying). Even if they were a heist crew, as opposed to a ragtag bunch who just want a quick payday, it would be one hell of a stretch for Lester to say "Hey Michael, there's a crew all the way in the southeast who robbed a bank and half of them got wiped out, want them to work with us?".

/Rerebuttal - Universetwisters (talk) 06:34, 22 February 2021 (UTC)


 * This discussion is going for a bit longer than what I expected. It's all ifs and buts and maybes in regards to this specific, handwaved line. Even if this reference is to the Vice City bank mission's crew, a speculative - because let's be real, it is - trivia point about this particular line would be better served on the mission's page than on a gang's page that was largely uninvolved in the operation; three of the four participators are hired guns, two of whom are one-time associates that die or can die in that mission. Even disregarding the dispute over the south crew's identity, it can't be on this page because it's largely inaccurate.
 * One thing I will say is that I don't recognize the divided canons as stopping Rockstar from making cross-era references, it has happened before and it will continue to happen, so it doesn't necessarily stop one point from being untrue until it's thoroughly contradicted or even retconned later on.
 * However in regards to this reference-heavy dialogue, may I ask why this "crew from the south" has to be 100% a reference (and one to a speculative connection with Vice City) when we earlier have Lester making a comment on a deceased past associated called Moses? Is that also a reference to a past game? Are we suddenly gonna apply this to the random hired driver Mike and Trev used in the prologue for GTA5? Something in a similar vein? That Niko Bellic reference was unmistakable due to the more defined description aroud the reference, we can't mistake or speculate about who it refers to. And even the "Irish crazies" is more specific and doesn't offer too much in terms of flexible speculation as to who it refers to, and with it being a relatively recent organization within the game's timeline at that point.
 * Lester's whole dialogue with Michael regarding building a team looks like a mixture of original events/associates shared between the two, and references to the previous entry in the game (and the one sharing a universe with GTA V, though as we've mentioned, R* aren't shy to cross-era references) for some continuity sake. Unless someone can get in touch with a Rockstar Games writer/employee with knowledge of the screenplay's development, to me this remains to be a speculation until an actual confirmation of the line's meaning will be obtained.
 * One last thing before I'm wrapping my latest reply up. Whatever are your feelings towards Universetwisters, Smurf, his reply on the original editor's talk page asking for information shouldn't have been reverted. He merely asked for sources or additional proof for his contribution, and I don't see any reason to remove it; as far as I know, it didn't break any rules or was particularly hostile or mean-spirited.
 * Anyway, can we begin to wrap up this fixation on one tiny line that spurred from an innocent but seemingly speculative edit based on what looks to be one's interpretation of said tiny line? If this discussion continues, we might as well take it to the Community Noticeboard to gather more opinions, evidence and hopefully, a conclusion to this. -- User:Raziel Reaper ( Talk To Me &bull; Edits ) 10:50, 22 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Not to sound stupidly stubborn, but hopefully the final wrapup on this line is resulting in it's removal. Not only is trying to make a connection between Lester's comment and the Vercetti Gang such a stretch you'll get yourself a trip to a chiropractor but also it seems like, if the people here posting are an indication of anything, the only people who do think there's a connection is Kiwismurf and the dude who added it. - Universetwisters (talk) 11:08, 22 February 2021 (UTC)