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'''Please input your new requests above the old ones. That way, we can easily spot it rather than looking for it.'''

Use of the "Deceased" symbol
Four users (myself, Sean, Marcus and RainingPain) have been discussing how to list characters as deceased in various sections (members, relatives etc.) of infoboxes. One case is character templates, where deceased characters have been identified with a crucifix (†) symbol. As Sean points out, they make the page look cleaner, but they can also impose religious connotations on others, which may not be appropriate on some pages. Since we all have varying opinions on how this should be identified, Sean suggesting setting up a community vote, so here we go:

In infobox sections (such as relatives, members etc), should deceased characters be identified in Written form, or through the use of a Symbol?

Votes

 * Symbol - EagleIcon.png PS3 Triangle.png PS3 Cross.png PS3 Circle.png 16:55, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Symbol - 14:52, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Symbol - DLVIII   Talk  15:02, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Symbol - Leo68 (talk) 15:46, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * symbol - ~
 * Symbol - [[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt1.png|90px|link=User:Smashbro8|Smashbro8]] ([[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt2.png|50px|link=User talk:Smashbro8|Talk]]) 16:36, May 5, 2015 (UTC)Smashbro8
 * Symbol  - DocVinewood (talk) 16:51, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Written - v-michael-trunk-mini.jpg V-franklin-trunk-mini.jpg V-trevor-trunk-mini.jpg 17:00, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

Comments

 * I think the crucifix means more of religion than death, but I think it should be added to a character's relative who is dead, like Packie McReary, in the relatives section of his infobox, there should be; Derrick McReary†, but in the status section, it's better if we write Deceased. EagleIcon.png PS3 Triangle.png PS3 Cross.png PS3 Circle.png 16:55, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * The relatives etc. section was the section we were discussing Andre. If you look on the Lost MC page, the members section in the infobox uses the crucifix. I'll re-word the statement to make it clearer. SJWalker (talk) 14:43, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * If the crucifix is such a problem, I may come up with a skull icon. That one wouldn't have any religious connotation whatsoever. 14:52, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Good idea Rain. EagleIcon.png PS3 Triangle.png PS3 Cross.png PS3 Circle.png 16:55, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * We are living in an era where everyone can look at a symbol, a opinion or a idea and immediately feel ofended by it. If anyone look at that crucifix and say that we are imposing religious believe on him, I would say to him shut up and grow a pair, the crucifix is a universal symbol of death, on the context of the page it has nothing to do with religion, get over with. If anyone see religious symbolist on the crucifix is because they want to. The last thing I want right now, is to see this site bend over this ridiculous politically correct bullshit that have been plaguing the media for the past years.


 * Besides, writing deceased on everything is ugly, and as Sean said, the crucifix makes it seem more clean. - DLVIII   Talk  15:02, May 5, 2015 (UTC)


 * Understood now, changed my vote. EagleIcon.png PS3 Triangle.png PS3 Cross.png PS3 Circle.png 16:55, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * What if deceased was identified as the word deceased but written in the color red.along with the crucifix
 * Won't solve the issue. Just make the infobox look even worse than right now. 15:48, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * The symbol works in the character templates and it will work in the infoboxes. Leo68 (talk) 15:46, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Seeing how the odds of my suggestion wont look good I am voting as symbol. I would hate to see the cruucifix to go away TevanoRCMP (talk) 16:13, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Since I am a Christian, I can say that the symbol we use is based on the "Cross", which Jesus was hung on, along with what we wear on jewelry for "protection". However, adding the cross symbol to mean deceased is not a good idea, since most editors here are atheists and therefore do not believe in any religion. Still, I'd go for the symbol since it makes the pages look cleaner. As Rain said, a skull symbol is more understanding and less argumentive of a topic than the use of the cross symbol. [[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt1.png|90px|link=User:Smashbro8|Smashbro8]] ([[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt2.png|50px|link=User talk:Smashbro8|Talk]]) 16:36, May 5, 2015 (UTC)Smashbro8
 * I agree with 558. The crucifix is an universal symbol and everybody knows what it means, there is no need to change it. I'm an atheist and I don't have any problem with it, nor I'm offended in the slightest. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. DocVinewood (talk) 16:51, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * True as i don't see how the crucifix could offend anyone and well said Doc if it ain't broke don't fix it. ~
 * Probably gonna be alone on this one but, yeah, written.

First, the crucifix is mostly used as a symbol of christianity. Many people have different opinions of it whether it's good or bad. Not everyone might understand this though which can cause confusions. Remember, we live in a world filled with different opinions and religions which means some people will get offended by it and some won't. Some mightn't even know what that logo/symbol means (there are people like that) which will cause confusion and distrubance.

Second. Cleaner yeah, effortful nah. The reason why I'm against this is because there isn't a point to these. " (deceased) " does the job just fine. It does not make the infobox ugly and it does give some bit of information. Unless you're using a 800x600 CRT (probably there are no issues even with that), there is absolutely no problems with it. Why try to fix something that isn't broken? Also how hard is it to type out " (deceased) "? It's no different than looking for and copy-pasting logos. It actually shows some effort put into the page instead of "here, have a random logo - I hope you understand 'cause you gotta find out things by yourself". If we're gonna use a logo to "explain" things, we might as well change all templates into pictures and put everything into abbreviations example being: "TA is a 2-door sc feat. in GTAV & GTAO." (imaginary cookies for whoever actually knows what page's description I shortened like that)   I mean it makes the intro for the page cleaner and does give somewhat understandable information. It also doesn't need as much effort as writing the whole thing out so why not?

Third, as said, the " (deceased) " does the job just fine. Are we really gonna waste so much of our times to swap everything with a logo? Nobody ever complained about the use of " (deceased) " then someone (don't remember who, I just remember seeing it on wiki activity) pointed out "it makes it cleaner" and suddenly everyone started losing their mind. Hundreds of pictures are uncategorized, hunderds of pages are stubs or are broken due to changes with whatever, hundreds of useless redirects are on the wiki, hundreds of old templates incompatible with the new design are not fixed... yet noone cares. Nodoby mentiones a thing about these and then suddenly we get a full-blown discussion about whether actual text should be replaced with some logo. Has logic taken a 180 degree turn or something? Even if this idea comes to pass, do we need to make such a silly issue our top priority?... especially when there actual issues around the wiki? 17:00, May 5, 2015 (UTC) "you can see that it works well on other wikis" Examples on wikis that noone (who supports the symbol) from GTA Wiki edited on? 17:18, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Disagree, and i'll use your words: The crucifix does a fine job either, you can see that it works well on other wikis. EagleIcon.png PS3 Triangle.png PS3 Cross.png PS3 Circle.png 17:10, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * "Disagree" Explain why?
 * Look at this infobox here. For me it looks good. EagleIcon.png PS3 Triangle.png PS3 Cross.png PS3 Circle.png 17:22, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

Lifeinvader Profiles
Closed as Tabbed (9) Flat (0) Leo68 (talk) 15:46, May 5, 2015 (UTC) I've been doing a bit of work this weekend building a template to replicate the GTA V in-game Lifeinvader profiles. The intent is to include this template on any character that has a Lifeinvader page in-game. This will also automatically include them in the new category I have also added.

The template, as it stands at the moment, fairly closely replicates the look of the in-game page, with the Friends list page open displaying up to 20 friends with working links to each of their pages.

I have also done a bit of work seeing if I can more closely replicate the functionality of the in-game page by using 4 tabbers for profile/photos/friends/stalking but there appears to be limited formatting options available to the editor when using the tabber function, so some of the aesthetics of the template would be lost in favour of the additional functionality. {| class="infobox" align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 500px;"
 * colspan="6" style="background-color:Maroon;" |LifeInvader_GTAV_Template_Header.png
 * style="width:10px; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * rowspan="5" style="width:180px;background-color:white;" |
 * rowspan="5" style="width:180px;background-color:white;" |
 * colspan="3" rowspan="2" style="background-color:white;" |

  Franklin Clinton   

Back to My Profile= {| border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 480px; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"
 * style="width:10px; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="3" style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" | Occupation: Entrepeneur
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="3" style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" | Relationship Status: Keeping my options open
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:white;" |
 * style="background-color:white;" |
 * style="background-color:white;" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="4" style="text-align:center;background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:white;" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="4" style="text-align:center;background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="4" style="text-align:center;background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * -|Photos=
 * style="width:160px; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|
 * colspan="3" style="text-align:left; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"| Photos
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|


 * colspan="3" style="text-align:left;vertical-align:top; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|

{| border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 480px; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"
 * }
 * -|Friends=
 * -|Stalking=
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|
 * colspan="3" style="text-align:left; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"| Stalking
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|


 * colspan="3" style="text-align:left;vertical-align:top; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|
 * }
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="3" style="text-align:left;vertical-align:top; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="6" style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="6" style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="6" style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |


 * }

I'd like to know your opinions on which version would be more useful.

Flat Version: Tabbed version:
 * Closely replicates look of in-game site
 * Functional for friends list only, no stalking list visible
 * Loses visual similarity for the tabs with background and text formatting lost
 * Fully-functional for both Friends and Stalking tabs, Photos tab is non-functional in-game so would have no content anyway, Profile (messages) tab content would not need to be replicated in the template (at this stage).

The current (flat) version has been trialed on Franklin Clinton's page. I am still undecided on whether to align the template on the right as an infobox or whether to align it in the center of the wiki page to more closely mimic the internet appearance or to align it on the left as a normal article table.

Niko Bellic test: {| class="infobox" align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 500px;"
 * colspan="6" style="background-color:Maroon;" |LifeInvader_GTAV_Template_Header.png
 * style="width:10px; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * rowspan="5" style="width:180px;background-color:white;" |
 * rowspan="5" style="width:180px;background-color:white;" |
 * colspan="3" rowspan="2" style="background-color:white;" |

  Niko Bellic   

"Profile"= {| border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 480px; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"
 * style="width:10px; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="3" style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" | Driver at Bellic Cab Services
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="3" style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" | Lives in Broker
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:white;" |Garnet_St.png
 * style="background-color:white;" |Dillion_street_.jpg
 * style="background-color:white;" |Burgershot.svg
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="4" style="text-align:center;background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:white;" |Burgershot.svg
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="4" style="text-align:center;background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="4" style="text-align:center;background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * -|Photos=
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|
 * colspan="3" style="text-align:left; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"| Photos
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|


 * colspan="3" style="text-align:left;vertical-align:top; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|
 * }

{| border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 480px; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"
 * -|Videos=
 * -|Obsessions=
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|
 * colspan="3" style="text-align:left; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"| Obsessing
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|


 * colspan="3" style="text-align:left;vertical-align:top; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);"|
 * }
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="3" style="text-align:left;vertical-align:top; background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="6" style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="6" style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |
 * colspan="6" style="background-color:rgb(255,192,203);" |


 * }

Thanks for reading. smurfy (coms) 11:18, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

Votes
Please indicate your preference for Flat version or Tabbed version below:
 * Tabbed - 11:59, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Tabbed MC (MyComputer) 12:06, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Tabbed - v-michael-trunk-mini.jpg V-franklin-trunk-mini.jpg V-trevor-trunk-mini.jpg 12:10, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Tabbed - MONKEYPOLICE188.png (talk) | (stalk) 12:37, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Tabbed - SJWalker (talk) 13:28, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Tabbed - [[Image:Signature.png|105px|link=User:AndreEagle17|AndreEagle17]] ( talk / stalk / blog ) 14:38, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Tabbed  -
 * Tabbed - DLVIII   Talk  02:20, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Tabbed - Body Armor Android.png SWAT Cam F Torpedo Android.png Dispatch Detonator Android.png Data Files Crate Android.png 04:02, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Tabbed-Myth(Talk/Stalk) 10:28, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Tabbed - Leo68 (talk) 15:41, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

Comments
Please add any comments or suggestions for improvements to either version:
 * The Tabbed version looks less confusing. However, both versions of the infobox looks very confusing in the mobile version. MC (MyComputer) 12:08, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Good point. I keep forgetting that both my Android and Windows mobiles are set to browse the full version, not the mobile version of wikia. As far as I can tell, the mobile version doesn't render tabbers at all, it just flattens them out, and both versions of the infobox use nested tables which don't ever render well in the mobile version. smurfy (coms) 12:29, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Checked using Wikia's preview tool. It definitely looks terrible on mobile. The table is extremely narrow and barely readable. 12:31, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I checked with my Android device (I think it is a better test than the Wikia previwer - although that works pretty well). The set widths of the left columns definitely mess with the mobile rendering, probably more so than the nested tables. I thought there would be side-scrolling issues but it just squeezed it vertically, even when you are viewing the mobile version in "landscape" mode. Yuck. smurfy (coms) 12:38, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * The mobile version of the wikia sucks anyway, I wouldn't bother with this if I was you. - DLVIII   Talk  02:20, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's something I agree with - but we can't do much if a lot of people use Wikia through their phone. 07:25, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Noticed another thing - the infobox is readable in the GTA Fan App. Although a few words are not visible, it is far more better than the mobile version of this wikia. MC (MyComputer) 10:21, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Are you going to be adding this template to Niko Bellic's page? Just out of curiosity. I like the idea and in my opinion, the templates look really good on the pages!
 * We don't have access to his profile in-game, so that would be an incomplete template based on the blurry image we can see on Jimmy's PC. 16:54, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * But the people that Niko's friends with and the business's he follows are still partially visible and legible. We could just link it to the people he's friends with (on the main page) it would be incomplete, but there's still info on his page and I think it would be fair to at least consider it. Whatever, maybe I'm missing the point, just think over the idea. Mortsnarg (talk) 17:01, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, I hadn't intended to put Niko's profile on his page, since the player cannot see it on the in-game LI site nor get the full content of his friends/stalk lists. The mock-up on Jimmy's laptop is unique. I may replicate the 3rd version - the real world internet version which doesn't match the in-game internet version as a 2nd template. Niko's one might warrant a one-off attempted replica on his page not using either template. smurfy (coms) 01:47, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Test of Niko Bellic version added above (as best as I can make out some of the text from my screenshots of Jimmy's open laptop. smurfy (coms) 05:10, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Even I'm not a big fan of things like this, the tabbed version looks nice and easy to handle, like the in-game version. Still can't give an accurate opinion about the mobile version, but all that I can see is that it looks messy in both forms due to their limitations. So yeah, the tabbed one. Body Armor Android.png SWAT Cam F Torpedo Android.png Dispatch Detonator Android.png Data Files Crate Android.png 04:02, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * The tabber makes it look cleaner and more organized. Closing the vote as tabber. Leo68 (talk) 15:46, May 5, 2015 (UTC)