Talk:Characters in GTA IV

Plans for this page
I've started "polishing" these character descriptions, but it made me think; do we really want two separate places explaining who these people are? So, the question is do we...:
 * A: ...turn this page into a simple list, and link to each character's page, maybe with a one sentence description each, and integrate the existing info off of this page onto each character's page.
 * the only difference between this and option "C" would really be the short description...

Obviously, we'll definitely be integrating the info off of this page onto each character's page. Thoughts, anyone? --GuildKnightTalk2me 02:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * B: ...transclude each character's page onto this page, and integrate the existing info off of this page onto each character's page.
 * C: ...replace this page with a category page listing all pages that are in the "Characters in GTA IV" category, and integrate the existing info off of this page onto each character's page.


 * Good question. I think because the category page already exists, that gives us the opportuniy to do something extra with this page. A category is a straight alphabetical list, which is great if you just want to find one character's page and you know their name (or if you want to find lots of people's pages). However, this is useless if you are unfamiliar with their names, or any situation where a quick overview would be easier.


 * For example, if I was not sure which girlfriend in IV was which, I could look it up and see their photos, and they are listed in order of importance, or chronological order of meeting, or type of contact. C is the wrong option because then you never see photos and short descriptions together.


 * Transcluding is definitely the wrong way to do this. We would end up with every scrap of information about every character, every image, and every category on one massive page that is too big for anybody to try to bother to read. This page would then become useless.


 * The way it is done at Characters in GTA San Andreas is not very good, because there is too much information. We would want just a sentence or two, with an image, probably in a table, something like this:


 * {|class="wikitable"

! Niko Bellic ! Roman Bellic
 * Nikolai "Niko" Bellic is the protagonist (main character) of Grand Theft Auto IV. Niko is of Serbian descent, and has previously fought in the Bosnian War. He is wooed to Liberty City by the promises of living the American Dream from his cousin Roman, but when this goes sour, he turns to the seedy underworld of Liberty City to build his way to the top.
 * Roman Bellic is Niko's cousin who has lived in Liberty City for 15 years. Roman claims to be living the "American Dream" and that he has two women, four hot tubs and fifteen sports cars, but in reality owns a gritty taxi firm in Broker. As a result, he successfully manages to persuade his cousin Niko to move to the city using this deception. Roman is also heavily in debt with various figures around the city, such as the Russian mafia in Liberty City. When Niko arrives, everything seems to go wrong at once, but together they can work their way back up.
 * }


 * Or to be more concise:


 * {|class="wikitable"

! Niko Bellic ! Roman Bellic ! Niko Bellic ! Roman Bellic
 * Nikolai "Niko" Bellic is the protagonist (main character) of Grand Theft Auto IV. Niko is of Serbian descent, and has previously fought in the Bosnian War. He is wooed to Liberty City by the promises of living the American Dream from his cousin Roman, but when this goes sour, he turns to the seedy underworld of Liberty City to build his way to the top.
 * Roman Bellic is Niko's cousin who has lived in Liberty City for 15 years. Roman claims to be living the "American Dream" and that he has two women, four hot tubs and fifteen sports cars, but in reality owns a gritty taxi firm in Broker. As a result, he successfully manages to persuade his cousin Niko to move to the city using this deception. Roman is also heavily in debt with various figures around the city, such as the Russian mafia in Liberty City. When Niko arrives, everything seems to go wrong at once, but together they can work their way back up.
 * Nikolai "Niko" Bellic is the protagonist (main character) of Grand Theft Auto IV. Niko is of Serbian descent, and has previously fought in the Bosnian War. He is wooed to Liberty City by the promises of living the American Dream from his cousin Roman, but when this goes sour, he turns to the seedy underworld of Liberty City to build his way to the top.
 * Roman Bellic is Niko's cousin who has lived in Liberty City for 15 years. Roman claims to be living the "American Dream" and that he has two women, four hot tubs and fifteen sports cars, but in reality owns a gritty taxi firm in Broker. As a result, he successfully manages to persuade his cousin Niko to move to the city using this deception. Roman is also heavily in debt with various figures around the city, such as the Russian mafia in Liberty City. When Niko arrives, everything seems to go wrong at once, but together they can work their way back up.
 * }


 * Let me know what you think - Gboyers (?) 10:13, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I like the first example; it seems like it would be easier to navigate than the second example. If it's all right with you, I'll go ahead and tackle this page.  --GuildKnightTalk2me 13:10, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Please do. You happy with all the markup required? Don't forget the first line:. Also, don't overfill the boxes with content. A brief overview (like I did) then perhaps which missions they appeared/died in, then perhaps which actor voiced them (all on separate lines or bullet points). Nice and concise, and easy to read. Gboyers (?) 13:44, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Spoilers
Also I forgot to mention - no spoilers (except those from early on in the game). Don't mention the end of the storyline or anything late on, just the aims of the characters, and how far through the game their appear. That way, everyone can read it, not just the people that completed GTA IV in the first week after release. Gboyers (?) 14:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll go ahead and edit out all the spoilers as I redo the page. Is it OK to have spoiler info on the individual character pages, then?  --GuildKnightTalk2me 14:12, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

If it's in a plotline section, thats fine. But not in the first paragraph. For example (fake spoiler) "Niko is the protagonist from GTA IV who eventually falls in love with the Mayor and turns into King Kong" would be silly, and would spoil the game for anyone who has not completed it (which is most people). However, if you have a separate section detailing the life of that character, the major events should be put in there. But still don't list every single step of every single mission for someone like a protagonist - just "worked for the XXX Mafia, moved to Vice City, took over the Malibu club" etc. Gboyers (?) 14:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Phase II
This is looking great. My next question is about the selection, order and organisation of the Characters. We could just lump everyone mentioned in GTA IV into one alphabetical table, but that would be pretty hard to use, and wouldnt be worth reading. The split into "major" and "minor" characters is probably the simplest way. But where to draw the line?

I think Major characters count as protagonist, family, friends, girlfriends, mission-givers and gang-leaders. Minor characters are targets, contacts etc - people who only appear in 1 mission, but are still actual characters with their own stories. Then people that are only mentioned (eg on the ingame radio, newspapers, TVs, posters, adverts etc) could be in a third list, perhaps using the four-column table (above). What do you think about that Method?

The alternative is to split the characters into lots of separate lists, such as family, girlfriends etc, but that can all be done on separate pages (eg Girlfriends in GTA IV). We can do that for all the gangs too, and Gangs in GTA IV. As for the order in which to have everything, for major characters, probably in chronological order (first one you meet goes first), so it goes Niko, Roman, Vlad etc. For minor characters, alphabetical order (by surname, where possible) should be adopted. Let me know what you think - Gboyers (?) 14:52, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I thought about it already, and I actually was already using those criteria, though I included Mallorie because it seems like she would be a major character, too, though she doesn't fit those criteria.


 * Here's what still needs to be added (I'm workin' on it)
 * Major:
 * Ray Boccino (mission-giver)
 * Phil Bell (mission-giver)
 * Jimmy Pegorino (reason is a spoiler, I think)
 * Michelle (girlfriend)
 * Gerald "Gerry" McReary (mission-giver)
 * Ivan Bytchkov (mission-giver)
 * Giovanni Ancelotti (gang-leader)
 * Gracie Ancelotti (mission-giver)
 * Kenny Petrovic (gang-leader)
 * Ilyena Faustin (mission-giver)
 * Brian (mission-giver)
 * Maxwell "Real Badman" Davies (mission-giver)
 * Mel (mission-giver)
 * Hossan (mission-giver)
 * Sara (mission-giver)
 * Pathos (mission-giver)
 * Carmen (girlfriend)
 * Kiki (girlfriend)
 * Alex (girlfriend)
 * Jeff (mission-giver)
 * Cherise (mission-giver)
 * Marnie (mission-giver)
 * Eddie Low (mission-giver)
 * Clarence Little (mission-giver)
 * John Gravelli (mission-giver)
 * Minor:
 * Bledar Morina (target)
 * Rodislav Bulgarin (target)
 * Dardan Petrela (target)
 * Joseph "Joey Tuna" DiLeo (target)
 * Kemal Vulaj (target)
 * Gordon Sargent (associate)
 * Anthony "Tony" Corrado (target)
 * Michael "Mikey" Keane (associate)
 * Lenny Petrovic (target)
 * Andrei Utraniyev (target)
 * Isaac Roth (target)
 * Marco (associate)
 * "Extras":
 * Millica Bellic (Niko's mother)
 * Thomas Stubs III (personality)
 * Julio Ochoa (personality)
 * I'm sure I've missed some, especially associates and personalities, so add 'em in and I'll be sure to get them onto the page. I think it would be a good layout to use the four-column table for minor and (more minor?) characters.
 * --GuildKnightTalk2me 03:38, 11 May 2008 (UTC)


 * After thinking about it, how about a few very generalized categories? Say,
 * Player Character
 * Mission-Givers
 * Girlfriends
 * Targets
 * Associates
 * Personalities
 * this would include Niko's mother, the gang-leaders that aren't mission-givers and people you hear about but are never involved with in a mission
 * --GuildKnightTalk2me 03:42, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

What did I do
I didn't vandalized the page my brother did. I was returning from a jog outside and i saw him on the computer vandalizing again. I see that i am a major threat to everyone so right now i'll get off the computer and turn it off so neither me or my brother cold get on. I will leave you people alone. I am not going to bother anyone else anymore. Why am i always the one to blame? You know, maybe going to a wiki and being a user was a dumb idea for me because my brother vandalized everything and i take the blame. I feel broken-down right now because i have always been taken advantage because my parents are injured and taken to a hospital after being in a storm accident. I have this babysitter which is actually my brother's girlfriend and i always have to eat dirt. I never meant to hurt anyone. i just wanted to be a good person and continue my life with achievements. I am so miserable i go to therapy. Great my brother will have better gifts than me by this Friday. Before i go, I want everyone else to have a merry christmas because i know that i am getting tortured right now. I hope you accept my apology.I am still very sorry. :[