User talk:A-Dust/Sandbox

Sandbox Impressions
I like this, it's good. However, on looking at it, I don't think the images (in the Districts tables) are useful (because they're so small) - they force the table to take up a lot of space and its harder to see just the names of the districts. I think we could meet halfway and have extended bullets, such as: This would take up less space, and still be more informative than the current bulleted lists. For more details, the full table (with pictures) should go onto Districts in Liberty City (as opposed to "Boroughs" and "Neighborhoods" used for GTA IV). The list of residents is also pretty massive (and thus not massively useful) - a short list of notable residents (gang dons and other main characters) would be good, along with a link to a list or category of Liberty City residents. I also think the links to Liberty City in GTA 1 and Liberty City in GTA IV need to be much more prominent (even a disambig at the top?). What do you think? Gboyers talk 16:47, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Atlantic Quays - A district to southeast of Portland Island comprised mainly of warehouses and piers.
 * Callahan Point - An undeveloped district to the southwest of Portland Island


 * I included images of each district to give the user a visual aid in picturing the district. Your use of description, in my opinion, does nothing to the user as it gives no actual image and is just a bland description. The idea for the images being small is so that there is an image, which can then be clicked to take the user to a bigger image. Either way, I agree that there needs to be more information about each district, as just a name gives you absolutely nothing. Also, boroughs are used in the GTA III Era LC (being Portland Island, Staunton Island and Shoreside Vale).
 * As for the list of residents, I was thinking of splitting the list into four: one for residents of Portland, one for residents of Staunton, one for residents of Shoreside and one where the actual location is unknown. The idea of listing each character, however, is to give them more exposure, as the majority are only listed in a few places (Liberty Tree article, Characters by Surname articles and/or character categories). Links at the top of the page for the GTA 1 and IV renditions is a good idea. I'll edit that into the page. A-Dust 18:42, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Dozens of tiny images are useless, you need to have at least 200px to really be able to understand what that area is like, and theres no point taking up loads of this page for that. Instead of being a page about the city, it's now mostly a detailed list of districts. I'd much rather see information about the city as a whole, information of the differences between districts and their distribution. The detail of each district can go on a page dedicated to that (there is more than enough there to fit on a new page).

Also, don't forget to use  at the start of each section, so that floating images don't stack up - I'd suggest using fewer images in the transport section (or have a gallery for it). Politics is good, not sure how important education is (since you can't use it, nobody will be looking for it), media is good but you don't need all those images. I think gangs deserve their own section (not just "crime" in general), since it is what the entire storyline revolves around. The residents list is FAR too long - nobody will read it, and it wastes space on this page - cut it down to 10/20 important people (MAIN characters).

I'm not sure of the relevance of Liberty City in GTA Advance to this article - how similar is that rendition to the other two. Surely the fact that it is 2D makes it different enough to be detailed separately. It should ONLY be mentioned on this page if it is the SAME city as in III and LCS (just with a few buildings/bridges different).

Overall, my thoughts are to have LESS information on this main page, and a lot more on other specific pages. So by all means spend thousands of words outlining districts on a central Districts page, but not here. List every resident you can find, but not here. This is what we've been trying to do with things like GTA IV. Hope that makes sense Gboyers talk 23:45, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I like the images tables and the detailed residents lists, but why not use them on the borough's individual articles, and leave the LC article with just brief descriptions and links to the articles? Also, the Trains and Subways section could be combined, rather than having separate subsections.  --GuildKnightTalk2me 01:33, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Since Gboyers gave his opinion, I have made a few changes to the article. I've changed the wikitable for the districts and increased the image sizes to 150px (which show the images better), except for the image of Hope Medical College, which is 100px (up from 75px). I've also cut down the information of each district, giving the districts: location, gang control, type (business, commercial or residential) and important information on Fort Staunton to explain why the area is under construction.
 * I've split the residents list into smaller ones. Each borough has a list of residents, with another section listing residents not listed in the above lists. I've split that list into sub-sections: criminals, media personalities (radio presenters), Liberty Tree reporters and other general residents who don't fit into any of the other lists.
 * The GTA Advance rendition of the city is the same as in GTA III and GTA Liberty City Stories, with some differences. The main one is the lack of subways, use of Portland El and hills, as they couldn't do them on the GBA.
 * As for the trains/subway systems, I kept them separate due to them being different: primarily the fact that the Portland El is only on Portland, whilst the subway system is for the entire city.
 * I added the education section to just add more information to the article, which also makes the article more like a Wikipedia city article. I am aware that we're not Wikipedia, but I think that they have a good article layout/plan.
 * I'll get to work on a gangs section. Should each gang have a section or just a more general section? Any other feedback would be great. A-Dust 19:22, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I've now added a small gangs section, just for the Mafia families. Is that what you were thinking? A-Dust 20:28, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * My only problem is that this article is now FAR too big. No way can we publish this. It should be a small article that people can read to get an overview of each of these things. If they want more information about a specific thing, they can go to a page specifically for that. The details of the boroughs/districts/neighbourhoods should be on a separate page, with only a one-line summary of each here (no room for lots of pictures). The residents section should be on a separate page, with only a SMALL list of the most important residents here (eg around 20). Transportation is good, but I don't think we need a picture for each - we can just link to their individual page (eg Portland El). Crime is an article in itself, but a small overview of the gangs in the games, and which gangs are in power at what times. Currently the article is far too big for anyone to read, including me. Just look at the side of the Table of Contents - even that is too long to read! I'm not saying get rid of content, I'm saying move it to separate pages (where you can go into as much detail as possible). Gboyers talk 20:43, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I've cut down the article some more. What would you suggest cutting? Also, the info on gangs that you mentioned is already in the article in the crime section. No need to repeat the information. A-Dust 21:35, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Would moving politics, transport and crime sections make the article acceptable? A-Dust 22:42, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Anyone? A-Dust 22:26, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ? A-Dust 20:58, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

It looks pretty good to me, though the images seem to skew the residents lists at my resolution. All the necessary information seems to be here, with appropriate links. I still don't see the need for residents lists here when they can be listed on the borough pages, other than that, great job! Bravo! --GuildKnightTalk2me 05:00, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

By the way, I think the tables you had on here originally would be very appropriate for the boroughs' pages. --GuildKnightTalk2me 05:03, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I've added two different templates to the sandbox page and would like to know which one the community thinks is better. The first shows the main characters, then the minor characters (who appear in the game or who are heard in the game) and then the radio DJs. Whilst the second is the current template, showing only the main characters. Obviously for a game like GTA IV this would be unfeasible due to the sheer number of minor characters, but for GTA III Era games I think this could be done. A-Dust 02:29, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * ? A-Dust 03:09, January 10, 2010 (UTC)