Talk:Buffalo S

Combine
This is getting to me, the amount of pages i have seen that are combined, and the others that aren't. Surely, this is just a variant (almost) of the buffalo, just with a different name, its like the gang burrito. If the Buffalo S and Buffalo S Sprunk are in one page, this should be combined with the Buffalo page. Surely, they should only be seperate if there is a dramatic difference, like the two utlity trucks. The Sentinel and Sentinel XS don't have a major difference either, i think they should be re-combined. This is my opinion, as i have seen some other pages that are also seperate, and some that combined, and it looks messy when some are combined and some aren't.   (talk) | (stalk) 16:56, February 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * From what I remember the Buffalo S page was separated from the Buffalo page without voting. 17:12, February 12, 2015 (UTC)


 * Ah right, maybe we should combine, i'm not so sure though. What do you think? MONKEYPOLICE188.png (talk) | (stalk) 17:15, February 12, 2015 (UTC)


 * My answer is neutral. Even though most generation pages are together, I feel having the Buffalo and Buffalo S once again on the same page wouldn't look too tidy. Same goes with the Sentinel and Sentinel XS combining. [[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt1.png|90px|link=User:Smashbro8|Smashbro8]] ([[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt2.png|50px|link=User talk:Smashbro8|Talk]]) 17:17, February 12, 2015 (UTC)Smashbro8


 * Voting no. I was the one who unmerged the pages and nobody had a problem with it. As Smashbro said, it won't look too tidy having them both on one page. Since one of the updates and current gen, Buffalo and Buffalo S were clearly made separate.

If we're merging Buffalo and Buffalo S together, Rancher and Rancher XL and Sentinel and Sentinel XS get the instant merge too. 17:42, February 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't really ask for votes, i was just asking for peoples thoughts, but i don't think this needs combining anyway. MONKEYPOLICE188.png (talk) | (stalk) 17:47, February 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * No. For the millionth time, Rancher and Rancher XL are two different vehicles and should stay separate. Their performance is different too. All the Burritos share the same performance which is why they were merged. [[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt1.png|90px|link=User:Smashbro8|Smashbro8]] ([[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt2.png|50px|link=User talk:Smashbro8|Talk]]) 18:38, February 12, 2015 (UTC)Smashbro8

I never supported the idea of splitting Buffalo and Buffalo S, they're just different generations, but this is something I don't really mind, if I did, I'd create a voting to merge them both again. ( talk / stalk / blog ) 19:19, February 12, 2015 (UTC)

I don't mind this merge, but I'd prefer them stay separate but the Rancher and Rancher XL are not getting merged. I will split them apart again if they do. 19:33, February 12, 2015 (UTC)Smashbro8

Votes

 * Yes - Leo68 (talk) 03:45, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * No - smurfy (coms) 04:04, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Neutral  No- [[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt1.png|90px|link=User:Smashbro8|Smashbro8]] ([[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt2.png|50px|link=User talk:Smashbro8|Talk]]) 05:09, February 13, 2015 (UTC)Smashbro8
 * No - 05:57, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes - [[Image:Signature.png|105px|link=User:AndreEagle17|AndreEagle17]] ( talk / stalk / blog ) 13:05, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * No. - v-michael-trunk-mini.jpg V-franklin-trunk-mini.jpg V-trevor-trunk-mini.jpg 15:37, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Unsure - MONKEYPOLICE188.png (talk) | (stalk) 15:53, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes - LS11sVaultBoy (Talk) 19:05, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Unsure - SJWalker (talk) 20:30, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * No - Carl Johnson Jr. (talk) 21:45, February 13, 2015 (UTC)

Comments

 * My justification is listed just above the vote. As for the Rancher and Rancher XL, mixed feelings, the XL is just four door variant of the standard like the pickup version, which is on the Rancher page. Leo68 (talk) 03:45, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Named as a different model. Like Sentinel and Sentinel XS, or Stinger and Stinger GT, they are different enough in performance, not just design. smurfy (coms) 04:04, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Even though I don't see much differences between the Buffalo and Buffalo S, I still have not driven a regular Buffalo often in GTA V, so speaking in terms of performance, I can't decide whether to keep the pages split or merge them back. I think they should be split though. As for the Rancher and Rancher XL, Sentinel and Sentinel XS, and Stinger and Stinger GT, like Smurf said, they are different in terms of performance and should not be merged. That would be like merging the Sultan RS with the Sultan page. All the Burritos have been merged because they share the same performance. Those vehicles do not. So, with the merge of those other three vehicles I think they should stay split. [[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt1.png|90px|link=User:Smashbro8|Smashbro8]] ([[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt2.png|50px|link=User talk:Smashbro8|Talk]]) 05:09, February 13, 2015 (UTC)Smashbro8
 * They were both named "Buffalo" pior to patch 1.14 and I tell you what, this case is different than Rancher and Rancher XL, Sentinel and Sentinel XS, Stinger and Stinger GT, instead, this case is similar to Oracle and Oracle 2, they both look different and perform different, I can send a video testing both cars, they're not named different but they are in fact different, yet, it's unnecessary to split them both, the same goes to Buffalo and Buffalo S. [[Image:Signature.png|105px|link=User:AndreEagle17|AndreEagle17]] ( talk / stalk / blog ) 13:05, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * As I said above, since one of the updates and current gen, Buffalo and Buffalo S were clearly made separate.

If we're merging Buffalo and Buffalo S together, Rancher and Rancher XL and Sentinel and Sentinel XS and a bunch of others have to get the merge too as they also have minor design changes just like Buffalo and Buffalo S.   15:37, February 13, 2015 (UTC) "Sentinel and Sentinel XS have different performances"
 * Well this page should stay separate. I might not be making it clear enough, but the Rancher and Rancher XL and Sentinel and Sentinel XS have different performances. Design isn't enough proof to merge a page. You may be looking at it that the Rancher XL is a four door version of the Rancher but did you realize it performs differently? Smurf and Andre said so. The Sentinel XS is a tuned version of the Sentinel, and therefore performs differently. If the Sultan and Sultan RS can stay different due to performances, so can these pages. I don't want to hear no more about the merging of the Sentinel and Sentinel XS/Rancher and Rancher XL. They are different in their own ways and should stay separate. Sorry to sound so harsh but it's true. [[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt1.png|90px|link=User:Smashbro8|Smashbro8]] ([[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt2.png|50px|link=User talk:Smashbro8|Talk]]) 16:31, February 13, 2015 (UTC)Smashbro8

- Smashbro8

16:39, February 13, 2015 (UTC) Justification:
 * Actually, they have the same handling in V.
 * But they were different in GTA IV so they should stay separate. [[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt1.png|90px|link=User:Smashbro8|Smashbro8]] ([[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt2.png|50px|link=User talk:Smashbro8|Talk]]) 16:44, February 13, 2015 (UTC)Smashbro8
 * In IV it was only a Sentinel with extras that made it look like Sentinel XS. There is no Sentinel XS in GTA IV. But yes, for older, 3D era, games the performance is different. v-michael-trunk-mini.jpg V-franklin-trunk-mini.jpg V-trevor-trunk-mini.jpg 17:01, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Which is exactly why those pages should stay separate. I believe if the Rancher was in GTA V, it'd outrun a Rancher XL anyday. Design doesn't mean anything. Performance should also be noticed. If two vehicles look the same and perform the same, they could be merged. Similar to the case with the Burritos. [[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt1.png|90px|link=User:Smashbro8|Smashbro8]] ([[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt2.png|50px|link=User talk:Smashbro8|Talk]]) 17:06, February 13, 2015 (UTC)Smashbro8
 * Yup. This is why Buffalo and Buffalo S should stay separate - they both have a different performance. v-michael-trunk-mini.jpg V-franklin-trunk-mini.jpg V-trevor-trunk-mini.jpg 17:12, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Sentinel and Sentinel XS are different because they are clearly badged as different vehicles. The Buffalo S was referred to as Buffalo until update 1.14 which justifies that it is clearly an updgraded version of the Buffalo. If this was to do with real life vehicles there wouldn't be separate pages for different generations, or facelift models. Performance shouldn't determine if a car is different from an older counterpart. Also, the badging on the S does not say "Buffalo S" it says Buffalo, therefore it is just an upgraded Buffalo, it does not need its own page. Leo68 (talk) 17:44, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Leon Davis, you are incorrect. Performance should determine whether a car is different from an older counterpart. If it didn't determine so, why is the Sultan RS separated from the Sultan? Why is the Clown Van separate from the Speedo (even though it is named the Clown Van)? Why is the Large Tow Truck separated from the Tow Truck, even though they share almost the same names? It's because they all have different performances. Performance is an important factor in merging vehicle pages. I still give you points because it was originally referred to as a Buffalo before it became Buffalo S, hinting that it is a second generation Buffalo with updated performances and designs. [[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt1.png|90px|link=User:Smashbro8|Smashbro8]] ([[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt2.png|50px|link=User talk:Smashbro8|Talk]]) 18:01, February 13, 2015 (UTC)Smashbro8
 * Pages for vehicles in a situation like this (such as the Sentinel) are always on the same page, just with a separate heading. Therefore this should be the same. LS11sVaultBoy (Talk) 19:05, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Sultan and Sultan RS - the Sultan RS is a sports concept used for rally sports (RS). It features three doors as opposed to the Sultan's 5. You can modify it but it does not resemble the stock Sultan RS, it just looks like a 5-door Sultan with a roll cage and spoiler. Page future: Keep separate.
 * Sentinel and Sentinel XS- the Sentinel XS is clearly badged with the XS logo, but the Sentinel does not feature it. Despite the VC, VCS and IV variant being modified Sentinels, the V model is a hardtop while the Sentinel is a convertible. Page future: Keep separate.
 * Rancher and Rancher XL- The XL has an expanded base and five doors, but the standard has a shorter base and three doors. Page future: Keep separate.
 * Buffalo and Buffalo S- The Buffalo is based on a 6th-gen Dodge Charger (2006-2010). The S is based on a 7th-gen (2011-present). The S features an upgraded look that just looks like an enhanced version of the original, except for the taillights, similar to the Charger in that the only major visual change between the 6th and 7th gen was a different set of taillights. The Buffalo S is also badged as Buffalo, and until update 1.14 it was labelled in game as Bravado Buffalo. It was then changed to Bravado Buffalo S, simply to avoid confusion when it was made available on Southernsanandreassuperautos.com. Page future: Merge. Leo68 (talk) 18:08, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * As Leo said, this case between Buffalo and Buffalo S is NOT the same as Rancher/Rancher XL,Sentinel/Sentinel XS and Sultan/Sultan RS! Think about this: what if the Oracle 2 is renamed in a update? Will we separete it from Oracle XS? No. Both Oracles perform and look different from each other, but they were badged as "Oracle", the Buffalo was renamed just to avoid confusion, it's not a different car, just a modified version, same with the three Hotring Racing cars too. [[Image:Signature.png|105px|link=User:AndreEagle17|AndreEagle17]] ( talk / stalk / blog ) 19:44, February 13, 2015 (UTC)

"the V model is a hardtop while the Sentinel is a convertible. Page future: Keep separate."
 * If the Buffalo S was named "Buffalo S" to avoid confusion then why the second-gen Cavalcade wasn't renamed to Cavalcade S? Why hasn't the second-gen Oracle been renamed to Oracle S? Baller and Baller S? It is likely true that R* wanted to avoid confusion between the two models but if they would have tried to "avoid confusion" they would rename all vehicles. They clearly intend it to be separate from the original Buffalo. The fact that they created an entirely new handling line for Buffalo S does clearly show something - note that there are other separate facelifts/variants/whatever and they share the same handling line with the original.

- Leon Davis


 * If Sentinel is a convertible and Sentinel XS is a hardtop then why are Zion/Zion Cabrio, 9F/9F Cabrio and Rapid GT (though both variants are named the same) are all in one page? What's the justification for having them all but Sentinel XS in one page? They're the same as Sentinel/Sentinel XS you described. Why shouldn't they be allowed to have a separate page?

If vehicle pages have to be merged, I suggest having some sort of a (unofficial) merge rule: Does it have a separate model? Does it have a separate handling line? Does it have a separate in-game name? If vehicles don't have at least two of the three = merge. And it just so happens that Buffalo S has all three. There of course are vehicles that are merged and answer yes to all 3 questions but there is no need to be separate. Livery Jester is a separate model AND separate handling (and separate name) but, really, it's only a livery slapped onto a normal Jester (except these are separate models but you get the point). Rat-Truck? Literally a clean Rat-Loader. Sanchez/Sanchez (Livery). See Jester.

The point is, R* clearly intend this car to be separate from the Buffalo. This is GTA world - real life "vehicle facelift" logic does not need to apply. R* based them on real life models, cool. But what/who says that vehicle is related to another in game? I can go on and on naming many different vehicles that are either small bit modified or facelifted that are separate. If badges on the vehicle make a difference, why is the Dodo named Dodo and not Y-ME369? I mean, there is no badge calling it a Dodo. Nobody ever called it a Dodo. If vehicle in-game names do not apply (which is the case with Buffalo/Buffalo S), how do we know it's a Dodo? Same goes for VC Faggio. No badges on it and handling refers to it as "Moped". As for avoiding confusion, R* might have named it to avoid confusion. They renamed the car, period. It should NOT be kept in one page anymore if R* changed the name to "avoid confusion". Buffalo S in game - Buffalo on the wiki. Now I wonder how the confusion is stopped if it's still being generated...?

This wiki is trying to give factual information to readers. Sentinel XS in IV is incorrect. Yes, XS badges are present, that is correct. The actual XS is present, that is incorrect. Different in-game name, model, handling, etc. - that clearly is a fact, whether players can see/access it or not. "R* changed the name to avoid confusion, this still is the normal Buffalo we all know" is not a fact. It's an opinion - something that wikis should avoid. Buffalo/Buffalo S should stay separate. If R* intended these to be separate, so should the pages. 19:51, February 13, 2015 (UTC)


 * If you say so, then i'd split Oracle XS from Oracle 2 based on everything you said, who knows, Rockstar may rename them soon. [[Image:Signature.png|105px|link=User:AndreEagle17|AndreEagle17]] ( talk / stalk / blog ) 20:18, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd wait for the moment Andre, as the game classes both versions of the Oracle as one vehicle, as when the player enters a Buffalo S it says "Buffalo S", whereas both Oracles simply say "Oracle". SJWalker (talk) 20:24, February 13, 2015 (UTC)

- Different design - Different handling - Different in-game name Oracles: - Different design
 * I'm undecided on this as I'd previously initiated a similar discussion on the Towtruck page. If the game treats them as seperate vehicles then they should be listed as such, but at the same time the Sentinel and Sentinel XS are contained within the same page. If we want to be consistent we'd have both Buffalo variants on one page, like the Oracles, Cavalcades, Ballers and Schafters, but with vehicles like the Towtruck and Large Towtruck they are the same vehicles but different in their own ways, and therefore have seperate vehicle pages. SJWalker (talk) 20:30, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with SJ. Having a separate page for the Buffalo S would be like having separate pages for the Oracle, Cavalcade & Schafter Gen 2 and Baller Sport. It is a pointless page. Leo68 (talk) 21:10, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * And why exactly is it pointless? Buffalo S has enough material to warrant it's own page along with the fact it is separate from Buffalo. v-michael-trunk-mini.jpg V-franklin-trunk-mini.jpg V-trevor-trunk-mini.jpg 21:28, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * It is clearly a variant of the Buffalo just with a different name. Having a page for Buffalo S is like having pages for cars like the Gen 2 Cavalcade or Schafter etc. Leo68 (talk) 21:34, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't call it a variant if it has a completely different design and, most importantly, handling from the normal Buffalo.v-michael-trunk-mini.jpg V-franklin-trunk-mini.jpg V-trevor-trunk-mini.jpg 21:35, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * See above, it is the same car in real life, just a different generation. Compare the Buffalo and the S (there's an image on the page) they look extremely similar. Until update 1.14 the car was always referred to as the Buffalo, not the Buffalo S. The S suggests it is not a new car but a facelift of the standard. Leo68 (talk) 21:41, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Please read my wall of text above. I have explained this point there. v-michael-trunk-mini.jpg V-franklin-trunk-mini.jpg V-trevor-trunk-mini.jpg 21:42, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * I will say it again, the differences between the Oracle XS and Oracle 2 are bigger than the differences between both Buffalos if you notice. [[Image:Signature.png|105px|link=User:AndreEagle17|AndreEagle17]] ( talk / stalk / blog ) 21:38, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Buffalo/Buffalo S:

How are the Oracles more different than Buffalo/Buffalo S?  21:42, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * An important point here that has been mentioned but largely ignored is the reason the S was added and why it hasn't been added to similar multi-generational vehicles. It was added to the Buffalo when it became available to purchase. None of the other similar ones have had that done (Oracle, Cavalcade, Baller - you can only buy one of the models). If R* decide to make the 2nd model of any of those available to purchase, chances are they would have to rename them too. This wiki is supposed to accurately reflect what is in the game. When R* changes something, we have to change with it. smurfy (coms) 21:43, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * I personally believe that if a vehicle is named differently in-game, then it must deserve a different page. The Buffalo S used to be known as the Buffalo, but it was later changed in a patch. The reason, I do not know. But otherwise, I believe the articles should be separated. Carl Johnson Jr. (talk) 21:45, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * WildBrick, what did you say now?? Oracles perform much different than each other, drive them by yourself, the Oracle 2 is faster and the Oracle XS is smoothier, they even sound different, the only thing they have in common is their in-game name and their manufacturer. [[Image:Signature.png|105px|link=User:AndreEagle17|AndreEagle17]] ( talk / stalk / blog ) 21:49, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Even with that, Buffalo/Buffalo S still have more differences. v-michael-trunk-mini.jpg V-franklin-trunk-mini.jpg V-trevor-trunk-mini.jpg 21:54, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * What I meant is, the Buffalo S and Buffalo look similar, the Oracles doesn't. They aren't similar at all, i'm comparing on how different they are. [[Image:Signature.png|105px|link=User:AndreEagle17|AndreEagle17]] ( talk / stalk / blog ) 22:02, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * It was merged before so it'll likely happen again even if isn't now. Leo68 (talk) 22:21, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think this discussion should be closed as unsuccessful. [[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt1.png|90px|link=User:Smashbro8|Smashbro8]] ([[Image:Smashbro8-Sig-pt2.png|50px|link=User talk:Smashbro8|Talk]]) 18:59, February 14, 2015 (UTC)Smashbro8
 * You're an admin, so I assume you are allowed to do so. 19:17, February 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * For now, i'm sure there will be another discussion later as Leo said. [[Image:Signature.png|105px|link=User:AndreEagle17|AndreEagle17]] ( talk / stalk / blog ) 19:02, February 14, 2015 (UTC)