User talk:MarcusCheeKJ

User Status
I am currently OFFLINE. M C ( My Co mp ut er ) 13:02, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Manual of Style
We have a manual of style for missions. DLVIIIL  Talk  05:13, March 17, 2015 (UTC)

Hi there.

I know the mission template provides for bulleted lists in the objectives, but if you take a look around, they have not been used for any other mission pages because frankly they make the infoboxes look terrible. The Manual of Style moved them to the page layout where they look much better and don't overcomplicate the infobox.

Please hold off adding any more while I do a little backround check to see why the field and instruction were left in the infobox template. For now, we will revert your changes back to the status quo.

Thanks smurfy (coms) Need a Heist crew? 05:37, March 17, 2015 (UTC)

Hi again. Yes, as you have rightly observed, you can recommence copying the mission objectives to the infoboxes now that WildBrick42 and I have discussed his design changes and he has made some improvements. Please don't remove the objectives from the article body though. Thanks for pausing when asked yesterday. smurfy (coms) 05:39, March 18, 2015 (UTC)

As per my discussion with WildBrick, go ahead and use the template to include the bulleted lists in the infoboxes, for the objectives and the fail conditions and rewards where there are multiple entries. smurfy (coms) 06:14, March 18, 2015 (UTC)

Pages "Under Construction".
Generally it means at some point someone has been doing work on it. Check the edit history and if no-one has touched it recently, then it is probably "safe" to start workimng on yourself without annoying another editor. That's not to say you cannot work on a page at the same time as somebody else, it would just be polite to engage their talk page to discuss what they are working on to ensure you are not duplicating effort or working contradictorily. In the case of the GTA III Rampages, it hasn't been touched for 12 months, so go ahead and work on it. smurfy (coms) 11:21, March 28, 2015 (UTC)


 * If you can't think of anything else that needs to be added, you can remove the template. If a staff member disagrees, they will re-add it when the edits are checked.  smurfy (coms) 11:48, March 28, 2015 (UTC)

Transcripts
Read the recent discussion. It's not a project I am getting directly involved in, so best you talk to Tom. smurfy (coms) 02:26, March 29, 2015 (UTC)

Order of missions
Tricky subject. The very nature of the sandbox design is that many mission progressions are not strictly linear and can be mixed and matched. Of course missions from a single "mission giver" are normally linear and completion of one normally unlocks that giver's next one with some exceptions; i.e. where continuation of a particular mission strand depends on completion of a mission from a different strand. This is complicated even more in GTA V with multiple protagonists having multiple simultaneous mission giver strands and some of those intersecting at times. If you think there is a glaring error in a mission strand, by all means make a change to the page. If other editors disagree, they will change it back and you can initiate a discussion to explain your logic. smurfy (coms) 22:39, March 30, 2015 (UTC)


 * The GTA IV Missions listing has nothing to do with where the action takes place. They are listed by the unlocked "island" then by the mission giver. The 1st 3 are correctly listed as being given by Jon Gravelli and are not available until Algonquin is unlocked. Same way Three Leaf Clover is listed as a Broker-Dukes-Bohan mission because it is given by the McCrearry's even though it takes place in Algonquin. When you have specific questions like this, sometimes it is best to look at the article talk page first. You'll see there has been previous discussion about the ordering. As mentioned above, they are non-linear and it does not make sense to list them all under each "giver" as certain "givers" get put on hold while the player must complete other strands before returning to the original giver. Laying them out in the "available" order is what has been attempted on that page. smurfy (coms) 08:49, March 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi again, sorry for the delayed response, there are a few things going on elsewhere on the wiki that have required my attention.
 * 1) As I have stated above, the mission structure can not be laid out in a linear manner. See this for a demonstration of how futile it is to try to lay out the mission list in a linear order. The currently laid out order makes sense to me.
 * 2) Stunt Jumps. Go ahead. I have it on my list of things to document but it's a long list, we need all the help we can get.
 * 3) Infoboxes - yes, we are trying to get as many of these built as we can. If you have any ideas for other categories that could use one, let us know and if agreed I can get one built.
 * Thanks smurfy (coms) 01:33, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Introductory Cutscene(s) with dedicated mission page(s).
 * It really depends on how integrated Rockstar had made the cutscene with the start of the first mission. i.e. in GTA:VC, GTA:SA and GTA:IV, they blend right into the start of the first actual mission so are described in the opening mission page, whereas in GTA III, the intro (if I remember correctly - it's been nearly 10 years since I've played GTAIII) it was more of a scene-setter and wasn't as seamlessly integrated into the plot of the first actual player-controlled mission. If The Introduction had opened GTA:SA, it would have had its own mission page then. We certainly don't need to think about splitting the intro cutscenes for every game if that's what you were thinking by this question. smurfy (coms)  10:28, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

RE
Thanks, I will do my best to protect the wiki. Also I saw your message on VaultBoy's Talk page. You should create the transcript pages in GTA IV because no one is working on that. If you need any help with the Transcript pages just ask me. Myth(Talk/Stalk) 09:49, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, you will also have to describe what is happening(EG-Some one leave the place, or makes a phone call) as well as outside cutscenes dialogues. Myth(Talk/Stalk) 10:28, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

GTA IV Transcripts
Hey man, I noticed that you are planning to make the transcripts for the GTA IV missions, if you need any help with the alternative dialogues during the car rides, or any other secondary dialogue to put in the transcript, I highly recommend you to check this guy's youtube channel, look for his "all possiblities" video playlist, he basically show us very single possible line of dialogue that each of the missions in GTA IV have, it will help you a lot on making this transcripts without playing the game multiple times. - DLVIII   Talk  14:39, April 22, 2015 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. I also added a new line of dialogue in the transcript and decided to use italics on the dialogue spoken in serbian. I think it adds more detail to the transcript. Feel free to message me if you need any help. - DLVIII   Talk  12:19, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

RE: Mission Transcripts
Yeah, sure. If you need to know how to set it out look at one of these. LS11sVaultBoy (Talk) 14:47, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

RE:Patroller
Thanks! Yeah, I'll work on the mission objectives as soon as I can (I'll also continue to upload screenshots of GTA III missions). Let me know if you need help with the transcripts. 14:44, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Road template
It's not a bad idea, but not something I'd want to do halfheartedly. It will take some thought to get a suitable design philosophy.

I'd see it looking something like:

Is that what you were thinking? smurfy (coms) 20:55, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Turns out, the template already exists:

Template:GTA_V_road smurfy (coms) 03:49, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

The template name does not restrict it to use for GTAV. There is nothing in the end display that identifies the game title, it could be used for any title. smurfy (coms) 03:55, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

RE:GTA IV Transcripts
You don't need to apologise. Theres no rush to finish this transcripts, so create as much as you can, when you can. - DLVIII   Talk  19:47, April 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * Oops! Didn't saw your first question, sorry about that. Well, I am only including dialogue from cutscenes and car rides, thats why I also put the alternative dialogues.


 * The only reason I included that last bit about the bus ride, was because its an fail condition that provoques an cutscene. I think that fail conditions that only provoque an dialogue from the characters can be ignored, otherwise the transcript might get too big, since theres a lot of these in each mission. We can open an exception for the fail conditions that cause an cutscene, since theres very few of these in the game. What do you think? -  DLVIII   Talk  04:00, April 25, 2015 (UTC)


 * I see your point, I think we can open exceptions and include dialogue from cutscenes and phone calls depending of the mission and if that make it easier to understand the context of the dialogue. We can discuss this further in later missions. As for Karen, I think its best to call her Michelle for now, at least until her true identity is revealed, for the sake of spoilers. - DLVIII   Talk  05:27, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

RE:Phone calls in Transcripts
Yeah, include phonecalls. Ones that start the mission, have a purpose in mission (including the humorous friend hang out offers during missions) and ones that are right after the mission that tells the boss the job is done. No need to include random calls after missions (for example optionally calling Roman to tell him about the current events) or character introduction calls at the moment. 15:14, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

RE:RE:Transcripts and Phone Calls
Phonecalls that once accepted, immediately start a mission, (as you said, like in Roman's Sorrow and Hostile Negotiation) should definetely be included, and they should be included in the transcript of the mission unlocked by then, since this phone calls serves to introduce the player to the events of the unlocked mission. - DLVIII   Talk  02:25, April 26, 2015 (UTC)

RE:Editing Difficulty
Done. The page should be good now. Are you going to put the dialogue that happens between Niko and Roman, if Niko chooses to do First Date before Bleed Out in this transcript? - DLVIII   Talk  13:47, April 26, 2015 (UTC)


 * The dialogue which Roman calls Niko to pick him at the hospital if Niko complete First Date before Roman's Sorrow, and the dialogue during the car ride to the cab depot. If you want, I can put this dialogue myself. - DLVIII   Talk  21:27, April 26, 2015 (UTC)

LCS and VCS missions
Personal opinion? I think they look terrible and should be consistently formatted the way the other mission list pages are. smurfy (coms) 21:12, April 26, 2015 (UTC)

Preferences
On mobile, I tend to use the "full site" option bellow the page. It lets you use the regular layout of the site that you see while using a computer, its kind of a pain in the ass to click on things because its so small, but you get used to it. What mission pages are giving you trouble? I think it have something to do with the videos, but I have to confirm this first. - DLVIII   Talk  12:30, April 28, 2015 (UTC)


 * Oops, I didn't check that page, I reverted my edit. - DLVIII   Talk  12:34, April 28, 2015 (UTC)


 * Check this pages again. - DLVIII   Talk  12:40, April 28, 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't know if theres an easier way, but if the video walkthrough on the page uses this type of link, you have to change it and the only way to do it so is by uploading a new video to the wikia, to do this you have to:


 * Go to GTA Series Videos youtube channel.
 * Find in his "GTA IV Walkthrough" playlist the video walkthrough of the mission page you want to edit.
 * Copy the URL of video page.
 * Click the "add video" button that is on the side of the edit page.
 * Paste the URL and follow the instructions.


 * If you did everything right, you will ended up with an video link that looks like this:


 * GTA 4 - Mission 8 - Bull in a China Shop (1080p)


 * Change the middle part of the link to "center", so the video can be placed at the center of the page, it will look like this:


 * GTA 4 - Mission 8 - Bull in a China Shop (1080p)


 * Now just put the video link where the video should be and the page should work normaly again. - DLVIII   Talk  13:38, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

Trial and error page editing
I have moved your "test" page to your own personal sandbox space. You can create as many sandbox pages as you need to help you learn to edit.

Regards smurfy (coms)  08:34, May 1, 2015 (UTC)

Transcript Ideas
I like the idea of using multiple transcripts to missions that can play different depending of the player's previous decisions, (Undertaker and Mr and Mrs Bellic) it can make the whole transcript less confusing and easier for the reader to locate what he is looking for. As for mission that are divided in two parts, (Out of the Closet and Final Interview) I think it doesn't make much difference, the second mission is a natural continuation of the first one not an alternative event, but if you want to make separeted transcripts for this type of mission I see no problem, I just don't think is as necessary as the missions that play different.

I still don't thing that is necessary to put every single dialogue from mission fails, but since its you that is making all the transcripts, if putting even more stuff doesn't bother you, then go for it. I just thought that you already had too much work in your hands with only the primary and secondary dialogues during the missions. Just remember that you don't need to rush with this transcripts, work at the pace you feel more confortable with.

AS Smuerf already said, when you want to create an page to put your own ideas and work, create an sandbox page, its just like creating an normal page, but you need to put slash signs to link this page to your userpage. I took the liberty to put a link to take transcript example page of your in your userpage, so in the future, if you have any other ideas, you can use that page to show me. Cheers. - DLVIII   Talk  13:32, May 1, 2015 (UTC)

I like the idea. The only thing I'm not sure about is the Headers taking up space - I've just added a new feature to the scriptbox so there won't be a need for these.

If the type of dialogue isn't specified, it will say "Transcript". If it is specified, it will say what you want to say.

For example:

So these can be placed right next to each other without the need of headers/spaces/splits/etc.. Everything else is fine. 14:05, May 2, 2015 (UTC)

Yes. That is perfect :)   09:24, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

RE:
It looks pretty good! I don't see how it could get better than this. Keep up the good work. - DLVIII   Talk  02:22, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

RE: Mission pages
That was my original idea with the mission objectives but now I'm not sure what to do with it. It sometimes looks messy when there's the mission objective, one line of description and next mission objective (Three's a Crowd is an example). 12:47, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Character infoboxes and the "deceased" symbol.
I'm a little on the fence on this one, while I agree with Rainingpain that they do clean up the infobox and look better, they also impose a certain religious denomination on the pages (by use of the crucifix symbol) that I disagree with. smurfy (coms) 22:03, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * I personally think it looks better if a character is listed as "Deceased", rather than the symbol. I have no religious opinion regarding the use of the crucifix symbol but if a character is listed as "Deceased" it looks less confusing for a new user, who may not be aware of why it is used on this Wiki. It should remain in Template boxes though, as its use is explained there. SJWalker (talk) 22:43, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

The infobox I was mainly referring to was the Lost MC infobox, which lists many members. For personal infoboxes, any deceased characters would be listed as Deceased. But in the template box (usually found at the foot of character pages), the template explains the use of the crucifix symbol in regards to a character's status. I personally think that "Deceased" should be listed where appropriate, as it is easier to understand for a casual visitor. SJWalker (talk) 10:38, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * I personally would, but I'd leave it for the moment and see what Sean says when he comes back a bit later. SJWalker (talk) 10:50, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

With determinant characters, they're listed as "Determinant" in the infobox, and in the character template at the foot of the page their names are in italics. SJWalker (talk) 11:09, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

To be honest, it doesn't bother me either way. To avoid edit battles over the use of the symbol though, before going through and reverting what may or may not be considered inappropriate use you should probably start a discussion on the Community Noticeboard and see if there is enough interest to set a policy on the use of the symbol. smurfy (coms) 12:17, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

Road template usage
I would include all junctions, otherwise you just get into petty arguments over what constitues a major junction. smurfy (coms) 11:36, May 6, 2015 (UTC)


 * Albany Avenue = Content: good. Output from the template: not so good.


 * Leave it there though, I'll see if I can find some time to tweak the existing template format tomorrow. smurfy (coms) 12:16, May 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think I'm going to have to take back my comment that it should work generically across games. I'll probably need to build a new one for streets and leave that one for the GTA V highways. smurfy (coms)  12:27, May 6, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry Marcus, I haven't had a chance to follow up on this yet. Good on you for diving in and trying to do it. I will hopefully have a chance to look over your template tonight and I'll let you know if I spot anything that you can improve. Don't worry about the number of edits it takes when building infobox templates, their very nature means that you have to save a couple of edits to see the result of any change. There is a test template page but it's currently being used for other infobox design tests, so there's no harm in continuing to experiment with your "live" template. smurfy (coms) 23:39, May 10, 2015 (UTC)

RE:Minor Characters
Yes, every single character, no matter how minor they are, need a infobox. I actually have been working recently in putting infoboxes in minor character pages, as you can see here, here and here. - DLVIII   Talk  12:45, May 6, 2015 (UTC)

RE: Mission Infoboxes
Adding the street name would give more information about the location but it would also add a long line of location into the infobox.

I don't mind either way though, do what you think is best. 10:21, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

RE: Happy birthday
Thanks Marcus. I'm sure I will enjoy it. :) Sam Talk 00:48, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

RE: Mission Transcripts
Not really, but it looks better when it's on the page. The scriptboxes don't take up much space so I don't see why they shouldn't be included. 09:50, May 16, 2015 (UTC)

Update
I don't edit on my cellphone anymore, so this doesn't effect me that much, but it sound really annoying. Theres not much that we can do besides ask then to change it back. So hopefully they will listen. - DLVIII   Talk  14:29, May 19, 2015 (UTC)


 * Just noticed that, give then time, they will fix this. How is the transcripts going? Need help with anything? - DLVIII   Talk  14:14, May 20, 2015 (UTC)

Planche Street
Verified in game and renamed. In future, just edit the page and add a template to a page.

Can I ask you to do the rest of the follow up cleanup... I left a redirect in place so links wont be broken, but if you follow what links here, you can edit the links to all say Street. smurfy (coms) 10:42, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

RE: Emergency Services template
Hi Marcus. I've been thinking about the template and the best name I could think of was "Public Service Stations", as the police, fire and hospitals etc. are classified as "Public Service". Another idea I had was extending that template to take in other emergency services like the Coastguard or Park Ranger, as they are both relevant to GTA games. It would require a lot of coding, which I am near-useless at, but other users like Sean or WildBrick may be able to help you as they are more experienced at creating templates. Sam Talk 15:20, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea Sam adding parkranger and coastguard to it seems like a good idea to me of course the same as you im useless at codingTevanoRCMP (talk) 16:22, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

RE:Update
We wait and see how this update turns out. I've been thinking about doing transcripts for GTA V missions, but some of then, especially the heists, have an gigantic amound of alternative dialogues. Dialogues that may or may not play depending of with heist crew member you pick and how many previous heists this crew member participated with you. I have been replaying The Big Score subtle approach, and I counted three possible dialogues with Patrick McReary alone, not counting the other members and even the other amound of dialogue for the obvious approach. Same thing with The Jewel Store Job, theres six possible dialogues between Michael and Franklin on the way to the jewel store on the smart approach depending of with crew member you picked. Doing the transcript for the heists is gonna be tough. - DLVIII   Talk  15:32, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

RE:
The Prologue one was a shitload of work already. I'm probably gonna work on them next month (school finishes on June 12th, it'll give me plenty of time and I was planning to do them during the holidays). If 558 is interested in doing transcripts for GTA V, he can start them and eventually if I have time I may complete them and tweak them to deal with the multi-dialogs things.

Obviously the Heists one will be the last because the dialogue options (with the multi-heists crew members thing) are numerous and it'll need time and inputs from others because since I'm using a version with French subtitles it makes things harder, especially since I doubt you can find all heist potential members combinations on Youtube. 10:37, May 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Currently I'm busy offline and even online. So transcripts will have to wait until mid-June, unless someone else takes care of it. I fully agree that a 2-men job will do it much better than a single person, but I won't be able to work on them until holidays come. 10:49, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

Re:Template
Ok I will amke sure to do that for now onTevanoRCMP (talk) 13:20, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

RE:
I will wait until mid June, just like Rain, my school will be finished by this period so I will have more time to do any work here. - DLVIII   Talk  15:06, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

RE:Infobox
I believe that the first infobox is used in business in general, while the second infobox is only used in business that the player can interact with, like the nightclubs or stip clubs. - DLVIII   Talk  19:26, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

RE: Infobox
This tag

needs to go in two places.

There need to be two of the same tags for it to work - one in the beginning and one at the end - so you have to put it before and after a "|" in the middle of all the tags (cinema tag is right after the "|" you're looking for to make search easier). Make sure to add them in correct order too - if you put a tag in between "cinema" and "military base", you'll have to do the same on the other half.

Can't really explain it better.

There's also a miscplace and miscplacename to add custom tags on page without having to edit the template and adding more tags. "miscplace = y" is needed to make "miscplacename = [custom tag (must be in capital letters)]" appear.

21:17, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

Excessive redirections after page moves
e.g. Michelle (GTA IV). By all means, you can clean up. That one is also a double redirect which you can clean up by redirecting Michelle (GTA IV) to the correct Karen Daniels page rather than the intermediary Karen page. There isn't a specific "rule" about cleaning up redirects - redirects exist to avoid having to do this tedious task every time. But if an editor wants to take the time to fix links that redirect, then there is no rule against that either. smurfy (coms) 10:57, May 26, 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, the double-redirects page does need regular attention. I think I did it last in Januuary and cleaned up quite a few of them. Anyone can do the fixes for it, doesn't have to be a staff member (as you've just done with the Michelle>Karen>Karen Daniels one).


 * Speaking of which, keep up the good work and learning the way you are, and you'll have my support when the next vacancy appears for a patroller. smurfy (coms)  12:56, May 26, 2015 (UTC)