GTA Wiki:Community Noticeboard/Archive 4

Anonymous Users Should be Allowed

 * RESOLVED: Anonymous editing will not be allowed - Jeff (talk|stalk) 04:28, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

I have noticed on many active wikis that anonymous users are allowed. And when you check some of these wiki's recent wiki activity you'll see that a large amount of edits are done by anonymous users. So what I'm trying to say is that GTA Wiki should allow unregistered users to edit freely. This would make the wiki much more active and encourage some of these anonymous users to sign up and become registered users. Sure there may be a vandal here and there, but with the large staff this could easily be stopped. And if possible, an admin or Bureaucrat could block the Anonymous User account for a week. Please consider this as I believe this could do great for the wiki. Boomer8 (talk) 04:37, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Votes

 * Yes - Boomer8 (talk) 04:37, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - Sasquatch101 (talk) 04:42, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 11:16, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * NO - ILan ( XD &bull; Edits &bull; Home ) 11:07, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Messi1983 (talk) 12:29, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Jeff (talk|stalk)
 * Oh Hell No - Cloudkit01 (talk) 13:26, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Dodo8 Talk  14:12, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * No -Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 03:49, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * No JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 06:53, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Tom Talk 10:00, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 17:41, June 17, 2013 (UTC)

Comments

 * The GTA Myths Wiki as well as others I see allow anonymous users and I don't think it would be a big deal. We should try it out; but if there is lots of vandals then reverse it. Sasquatch101 (talk) 04:42, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but what if some of them are anon vandals? - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 11:16, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Same as Mikey. It is not a secret that any second anon is a vandal: it is impossible to trust anons, at least in my eyes. Sure, Wikia is all about making a community, but anons are a different story. -- ILan ( XD &bull; Edits &bull; Home ) 11:07, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * There will not be "a vandal here and there". There will be dozens of vandals per day. Just think about it this way - Wikia and Wikipedia tout their everyone-can-edit rule like it's a religion. For them to turn off anonymous editing completely on this wiki just proves the magnitude of the anonymous vandalism problem this wiki once had. In fact, I'd bet that even if this resolution passes, Wikia Staff would veto it. Jeff (talk|stalk) 12:33, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * We already have problems with registered users, unregistered users would bring even more problems. But I agree we should have more Admins. For example, there's some guy who is adding Fanon content and me and Jeansowaty are the only one who spotted him? I'm voting No. Dodo8 Talk
 * We already have problems with registered users, unregistered users would bring even more problems - Sums it up perfectly. Messi1983 (talk) 22:56, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * As per Dan's last comment. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 06:53, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, that ended up quickly. -- ILan ( XD &bull; Edits &bull; Home ) 13:02, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * thumbs up the last comment* - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 22:34, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with Jeff and Dodo. While I do allow anonymous users to edit on the other Wiki's I run, this Wiki is just too big for that, there are already a lot of users, adding unregistered users to that would make this place almost unmanageable. I think I was the only one around when this Wiki was abandoned, pretty much every unregistered user was a vandal, and it took an incredible amount of time and work to get this Wiki to what it is now, allowing unregistered users will be a step backwards. Tom Talk 10:00, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, I disagree but not at all. The bad part is, that each day we need to check if these new users are doing good edits, reasonable work, and don't messing up with the pages, we had a lot of problem with it. --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 17:44, June 17, 2013 (UTC)

WE NEED MORE STAFF- Raise the Admin limit to 8

 * RESOLVED: Proposal to raise admin limit to 8 failed. Jeff (talk|stalk) 04:29, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Currently the GTA Wiki has 3 Bureaucrat, 5 Admins, & '''8 Patrollers. '''Once GTA V is fully released there will be a flood of new users. Some users will be good editors, some will unintentionally make mistakes and others will be vandals. My proposal would be to have one of 8 patrollers assigned to one of 8 admins. This would make it easy for one admin not to get overwhelmed with his duties. Of course patrollers could still contact another admin and fellow patrollers but this new reporting system would improve the responce time as in the past, vandals were not stoped for a while. It would almost be like individual teams that would make up the whole GTA staff. I hope you all consider this great plan to assure a promt responce in any situation that could damage the GTA Wiki. Sasquatch101 (talk) 02:52, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Proposal

 * 3 Bureaucrats
 * 8 Admins (assigned one patroller)
 * 8 Patrollers (assigned one admin)
 * Staff total: 19 (18.75% increase)

Votes

 * Yes - Sasquatch101 (talk) 02:52, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes and No - Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 04:12, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - Boomer8 (talk) 04:29, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * No JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 06:59, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Dodo8 Talk  07:20, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - VaultBoy Tom (Talk to me this way) 11:38, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - ILan ( XD &bull; Edits &bull; Home ) 13:10, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Tom Talk 13:50, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Messi1983 (talk) 19:15, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 22:50, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Probably - Cloudkit01 (talk) 03:57, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Jeff (talk|stalk) 13:45, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - istalo (Leave me a message) 14:33 ,June 12, 2013

Comments

 * As I stated above this proposal is about further limiting the potential damage vandals and confussed users can do on the wiki. This "team" system will also allow for a faster responce time and more organized effort to secure the GTA Wiki agginst potential threats.
 * I partially agree with this. I do agree that we need three more admins and patrollers to keep the Wiki smooth running. However, the staff can't be on the Wiki all day. We have lives outside the Interweb and the Wiki. That's a problem (and I contribute to that) that will never be resolved. Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 04:09, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't really see any logic in assigning patrollers to certain admins to report an issue. I don't think any admins are getting "overwhelmed". And about raising the amount of admins to eight seems a little high, but the release of GTA V may call for this. I'm not sure. I'll think about it. Boomer8 (talk) 04:29, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * We already have enough admins and bureacrats to cover the different times zones, except the far east. The only new additions to the Bureacrat and Admin team should be from the far west or far east, so that we have strong coverage for each time zone. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 06:59, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree we should have more admins, yesterday we were 3 active patrollers who spotted that vandal, but we couldn't stop him until an Admin logged in. Since I'm one of the patrollers who wants to be promoted in the future, my vote won't count anyway. Also, 8 Admins seems a little too much, in my opinion 7 would be enough. Dodo8 Talk
 * Yeah, I think it would be a good idea to have more admins, but as Dodo said, it would be a bit too much with 8. VaultBoy Tom (Talk to me this way) 11:38, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * We don't need more admins, but we do need more patrollers: 6 admins is enough (for now) and our cuurent limit for patrollers is 8 anyway (so your proposal doesn't increases this limit). I personally think that limit for patrollers should be increased to 12.-- ILan ( XD &bull; Edits &bull; Home ) 13:10, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with Ilan. That's why we're currently allowing requests to become a patroller. But I think we have enough admins at the moment. It's exam time for some admins, hence the current inactivity of me among others, so that may explain why nobody was available at the time. We can revisit this idea in a couple of months, if it's still an issue then we may implement some changes. Tom Talk 13:50, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * We will check this issue during the summer holiday. If there will be periods of time when no staff will be present I consider we should agree to make the staff bigger. Dodo8 Talk
 * Okay, a couple of points.
 * First of all, Dodo, your vote does count.
 * Secondly, I believe we should discuss whether to take on a new admin when GTA V is released, or a little beforehand, so we can deal with the inevitable bad edits, vandalism, arguments over content, and new members.
 * Thirdly, this idea of assigning a patroller to a certain admin is not logical, and is ridiculous in my opinion. Messi1983 (talk) 19:26, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I hadn't read the part about patrollers assigned to admins. I agree with Dan on that, and on everything else he said. Tom Talk 09:48, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not sure if this is the place to put this, but admins and bureacrats do have those boxes urging people to message us. If any one of our editors actually left me a message I would have been able to come and sort out the issue. When I was patrolling I would send messages to every last admin; if other editors did so as well, there would be a greater chance of a quick solution. I still believe that if we do we need an admin, they should be at least GMT +5. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 20:40, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good point. Tom Talk 09:48, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * If we're having more admins, make it one more, not three. - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 22:50, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * My whole logic is that patrollers really don't have any power to stop an aggressive vandal which is why we need more editors with blocking power. The number 8 for admins makes sense since there will be 8 patrollers. The problem isn't that there is not enough patrollers, but rather there isn't enough admins. Adding three admins would fill the gaps that are missing at the moment. As it is there are vandals; once V is out, bet that number to double. Everyone has there own time they are active, so more admins would further protect the wiki. The time is now to be prepared for the near future. Sasquatch101 (talk) 03:39, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * The thing about admins is that being an administrator is a much bigger deal than being a patroller. Administrators have to be patient, reliable, responsible, and knowledgeable about GTA Wiki's policies - even the unpopular ones like the Image policy. We've promoted one admin who would plead with vandals to pleasepleaseplease be nice instead of blocking them while they laughed in his face and kept vandalizing, and we've promoted one admin who wasn't even remotely qualified and ended up getting demoted for saying there was nothing for him to do. That's why I'm very hesitant when it comes to promoting people to admin, and to opening promotion back up again. Opening up a position for one more administrator is something I'd probably vote in favor of if someone made that proposal, but another thing I want to make clear - an empty spot doesn't guarantee that any particular person's going to get the position, and an empty spot doesn't mean that there's any great urgency to fill that spot. Admins need to be qualified and reliable. Jeff (talk|stalk) 13:44, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. Being an admin doesn't make you god of that wiki. Most wikis I visit just to read have a crap load of admins, yet, they don't do a damn thing. Promoting someone an admin, they will go AWOL then causes disturbances and disputes. If we ever do promote a Patroller to Admin, we can't take their word for it; we need to check if the user has good, quality edits and check if the user is on good terms. As for the Patrollers, we are only given the Rollback tool Chat blocking tool. What you said about how they (we) can't stop aggressive vandals, that could be a problem. Even worse if there are no admins active. This request on this noticeboard is a yes and no to others and I and when it closes, this is something I could look back on after the release of GTA V. Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 18:02, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm voting Yes because of what Sasquatch just said. Once GTA V is out there will be more confused new users and vandals. It would be smarter to get new admins now and prepare, rather than later. Boomer8 (talk) 16:58, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * What about the proposal to assign on admin to one patroller? My first point was that this would improve the responce time to a vandal. What I was also thinking was that it would make sure admins and patrollers are very involved, and performing their job. Of course taking a couple days off is normal, but this new system would weed out the editors that have lost interest and would freeup positions for enthusiastic editors. We could also have a reward system where the team with the most edits that month get a badge or some recognition in the wiki community. The team system would not only be a fun reward system, but a functional tool to make sure everyone is performing in their position. Sasquatch101 (talk) 02:39, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * As both I and other people have said, if anyone catches a rampaging vandal (by which I mean someone vandalizing as many pages as he can manage, not just a drive-by vandal) they shouldn't edit war with the vandal - they should inform all of the admins and b'crats and then completely ignore the vandal. Even if the vandal gets fresh and tries to remove the message, the admins will still get the "you have new messages waiting" and have the sense to check their talk page history to see what's going on if they don't see any new messages. There's no reason to assign patrollers to individual admins. Jeff (talk|stalk) 02:59, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

PS.: Arrrrrghhhh I don't have much time to see the new updates, beacause the school is killing me (not really, but you know right...). Bloody hell, I'll try to check posts, this friday ok? istalo (Leave me a message) 14:33, June 12, 2013
 * Ok ok, what about we raising at least to 1 more bureaucrat, and 2 admins? That wouldn't be a bad idea...
 * There'll always have to be an odd number of bureaucrats, since there are occasional bureaucrat-only votes. And what I said about promoting people to admin goes double for promoting them to b'crat. Jeff (talk|stalk) 14:55, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought better and I changed my vote to No. I believe we should have 1 or 2 more admins, and maybe a few more patroller, but is fine for now. Dodo8 Talk

Dodo8 Talk

Affiliation with Watch Dogs Wiki

 * RESOLVED: The margin of support falls short of the 70% required to enact the affiliation - Jeff (talk|stalk) 01:20, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

I know since the beginning of time this wiki has been running completely on its own. The Watch Dogs Wiki has many similarities with GTA wikia; it uses similar framework as I quite like the GTA wiki setup and similar category networks. I think it would be nice if we could get some more editors interested in editing there. I don't want to put too much emphasis on the affiliation so just a picture link on the main page somewhere would be all. Also linking the two titles together could be beneficial to readers, as the two games share a lot in common as well. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 08:04, June 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Since (as of this post) the proposal has not quite enough votes to pass but does have majority support, as well as sporadic voter participation, it shall remain open for a few extra days. Proposals need 70% support to succeed, this one currently has 62.5%. Patrollers and admins who have not voted because they don't care are allowed to vote "no preference", "no opinion", "indifferent" or something similar. Jeff (talk|stalk) 04:34, June 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * 5 days and one additional 'no' vote later, I'm closing this as a failed proposal. Jeff (talk|stalk) 01:20, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Votes

 * Yes - ILan ( XD &bull; Edits &bull; Home ) 16:07, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Sasquatch101 (talk) 02:58, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - istalo (Message) 15:52, June 13, 2013
 * Yes - Dodo8 Talk
 * Yes - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 17:50, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * No --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 17:49, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Jeff (talk|stalk)
 * Yes - Instulent (talk) 14:13, June 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Messi1983 (talk) 14:02, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Comments

 * It doesn't really important if the two titles share similar features, as even the wikis with the most different subjects can become affiliated. I do think, however, this is a very good idea and may open a door us to affiliate with more Wikis. -- ILan ( XD &bull; Edits &bull; Home ) 16:07, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * To say Watch Dogs Wiki should be an affiliate to the GTA Wiki really makes no sense. It is not related to GTA in any way; that alone should be the deal killer. Saints row is a GTA clone, and has very similar attributes, but it is not GTA and therefore should not be able to tap into the GTA network. Grand Theft Answers and Rockstar Games Wiki should really be the ones considered affiliates at the moment. Sasquatch101 (talk) 02:58, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * You don't seem to understand the affiliation concept; (as ILan pointed out) the topics don't have to be similar in order for an affiiliation to be made; do some research - look at other wikis that belong to affiliate groups. One thing that I love about Wikia is the community that exists and the various wikis with interesting information, social integration is something tha we could do with, for our own editors and maybe to attract new talent.
 * Plus it would be good for readers to have quicker access to other wikis that we affiliate with. Limiting our affiliation just to GTA-related wikis, kind of defeats the object of community integration and linking.
 * " It is not related to GTA in any way " - a view that indicates little research done before speaking. I suggest people do some research before voting if they wish to agree with this statemnt. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 09:39, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well I see no problem to affiliate with other wiki, and plus as Ilan said, it's a good idea... istalo (Message) 15:52, June 13, 2013
 * It's a good idea! Also, we should list the Rockstar Games Wiki too. Dodo8 Talk
 * Go ahead. And like Dodo said, you should add the Rockstar Games Wiki too. - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 17:50, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Credit to Sasquatch, it was his idea :) Dodo8 Talk
 * In that case, good idea Sasquatch. - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 20:52, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Sasquatch101 (talk) 02:18, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Jbanton, You have a real pissy tone in your responce to the comment I made which is a sign that you are a very insecure person. Now thats out of the way, you should look at the wikis that are GTA wiki affiliates and note it's only GTA related. I very much understand the affiliates concept as I was the one who lobbied for an affiliates section on this wiki. I know you have been fighting to get your foot in the door over at "watch dogs wiki" as an admin, but that is no reason to use the GTA Wiki name as a way to boost activity on an ill qualified wiki. YOU who should be looking out for this wiki, not others you are trying to boot activity on for your own reputation. Sasquatch101 (talk) 02:18, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * We don't have affiliates, hence why I have this proposal here.
 * You really should research; I've been an admin there for a little while actually, your misconceptions and naivety ("use the GTA Wiki name as a way to boost activity on an ill qualified wiki") are uncalled for and poorly founded.
 * GTA Wiki belongs to Wikia, editors don't have to pledge full allegiance to one topic. Also this is not the place for (poorly researched) personal atacks. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 07:04, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Stop it, guys. You're part of the GTA Staff, you shouldn't fight eachother. Dodo8 Talk
 * Enough! No more personal attacks. Both of you need to calm down. - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 20:34, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if we are allowed to add amendments or that sort of thing to proposals, but could we also affiliate with other Rockstar title wikis, such as Read Dead Wiki and Midnight Club wiki? JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 17:19, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nah, I think we should be affiliated or "allied" to Wikis only with the Rockstar Games as the developer/publisher, Watch Dogs could be a nice game but it has nothing to share with GTA. --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 17:49, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's nothing against Watch Dogs Wiki, but in my experience "affiliated wikis" never leads to anything good and usually leads to a fight between the wikis when malcontents from one jump over to the other and start causing problems. Jeff (talk|stalk) 03:12, June 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think so, because then we can build a bridge in a way for larger communitys joining the Watch Dogs wiki and to here as well. Instulent (talk) 14:15, June 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * This has now run for a little over a week. Five votes in favour versus three against. I'm guessing this can be closed as the motion having passed. I have taken on board Jeff's comment and will do my best to ensure that nonsene and trolls are not shared, mainly by stamping them out in the first place at the affiliated wiki. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 07:54, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

Edit Requirement

 * FAILED - Jeff (talk|stalk) 04:30, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

I've noticed that some staff members (I won't name names) are inactive sometimes. So to ensure that the GTA Wiki staff is active and doing their job properly, we should have a "three strike rule". What I'm saying is that if a staff member didn't produce 30 edits at the end of the month, that person would recieve "a strike". And if that peticular staff member recieved three stikes in one year, he or she would be demoted. This sytem would make sure every staff member is quallified for their job and flush out the ones who are not. This would also possibly open up staff positions for people who are quallified for the job, rather than the ones who are not. For an active and quallified staff member 30 edits a month should not be a problem; if it is, then you are not cut out for the job and are just holding up precious staff positions. One edit a day is not too much to ask for. And to make sure every staff member is producing 30 edits a month, three trusted editors at the end f each month whould check every one of the staffs contributions.

Proposition:
Please vote and leave a comment. Thankyou. Boomer8 (talk) 03:44, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 30 edits are required each month by a staff member.
 * If 30 edits are not executed, that staff member will recieve a strike.
 * If a staff member recieves three strikes in a year, he or she is demoted.
 * Edit counters - Three trusted staff members who check the staff's contributions each month.

Votes

 * Yes - Boomer8 (talk) 03:47, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Dodo8 Talk
 * No - Tom Talk 11:58, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 12:50, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Jeff (talk|stalk) 14:59, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Absolutely Not - Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 15:25, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, great idea! --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 17:59, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 19:23, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - Sasquatch101 (talk) 04:53, June 18, 2013 (UTC)

Comments

 * I think this is a great idea, and is an easy edit requirement for a staff member. Boomer8 (talk) 03:47, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * This would be useless if the staff member knows the rule. It ain't that hard to produce 30 edits a month. Dodo8 Talk
 * Thirty edits are quite easy to produce, and the staff are required to have administration skills, not just editing. Also the introduction of the system would penalise users who produce edits that add a lot to articles, but come in lower amounts. Finally, we have the sixty day rule, so I don't think the addition of a new system is really necessary. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 12:57, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Unnecessarily bureaucratic. Jeff (talk|stalk) 14:59, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * So let me get this straight, you want to demote Staff members that are inactive for a month? What about users who have a reason for being inactive? Is Messi going to be demoted because of his medical reasons? Is Jeff going to be demoted because he in in West Virginia? Am I going to be demoted because I can't edit all the time because I'm on vacation? Seems to me that you didn't quite think this out wholly. There is a rule on the GTA Wiki:Staff page for users who are inactive for no given reasons. Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 15:25, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Tony is right. Next year I will be in the eighth grade. In my country, we have to learn very, very, very much for the Romanian and Maths exams, which are very difficult. I won't be active all day during this period, but I'll try to check the wiki at least once a day. Being a staff member doesn't means you have to produce many edits, but to keep the wiki off vandals and check issues. Dodo8 Talk
 * Tony said all of what I wanted to say. - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 19:27, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * I really agree with this idea, it was one of the most brilliant ideas I ever saw, so, there's a lot of "newbies" who been keeping a hard work in the edits and they have not the chance to become a standard (so sorry). And if one of the staff member did not his part in a month, he should be "expelled". In my part I think things have been done good, the 1000 edits in March and I really excuse my absence in the months of April and May in cause of someones death in my family. Today no one of the staff's member is going inactive so that's good. So sorry about the newbies but I agree with your idea and I think your idea needs to be applied. Like Dodo I'm too in the eight grade and I need to learn a lot but, I always try to help the Wikia meanwhile these days.. --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 17:59, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe those who are extremely inactive (not editing for more than a few months; not responding to messages) should be considered for demotion, but "strike" thingy would be too difficult to accomplish. Dodo8 Talk
 * Users such as Bob.cutlass2, Haruhi, and GTANiKo are prime examples of long inactive users. The "strikes" effect is problematic and unprofessional, it's like playing baseball. Each users' contributions should be checked, should the users go inactive without any reasons. Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 18:34, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * We have a policy that says anyone who goes inactive for 3 months is automatically demoted to patroller. As far as people who are barely active but who edit just often enough to keep from getting demoted, I suppose the way to handle that would be for someone to file a request for demotion against them. But what kind of work they do should also be taken into consideration, as should whether they intend to become active again when GTAV comes out. It can be assumed that editors who get promoted are among the best of editors, and punishing them for not being active should be done reluctantly. Jeff (talk|stalk) 23:00, June 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * This sounds like a great idea to keep the wiki running strongly. I think the 30 edit requirement is fine, and if someone can't even tack up 30 edits a month then they have probably lost interest altogether. Waiting for V shouldn't be an excuse for long periods of not contributing, or very little as we are all waiting for V and there are still plenty of things to improve apon. It's a yes for me it really shouldn't scare anyone that is activley involved. Sasquatch101 (talk) 04:53, June 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * This concept is massively flawed. Firstly, an editor could write 20 complete articles in a month, and be given a strike for inactivity, that's ludicrous. It isn't about the edit count, it's about the significance of each edit. Secondly, we have a policy in place, and we demote inactive users, the current system is much more professional. The three strike idea is such a primary school concept. I could think of more flaws in this idea, but that's redundant now, I think I've got my point across. Tom Talk 11:07, June 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I know this wiki doen't like change, but I suggested this idea in the first place because I believe the current one (which is that you'll be demoted if you're inactive for three months) isn't working. I hate to say, but Winter Moon abuses the current rule by doing one or two edits a month just to keep his admin position. If this new rule was put into place he would be gone quickly, opening up an admin position for a patroller who deserves it. This rule would keep this from happening again. Sure the rule can bend a bit if your on vacation or something, or you have many large edits. But five large edits a month I believe aren't enough to be part of the staff. Being part of the staff is a priveledge, not a right. Boomer8 (talk) 05:40, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * It also seems unfair that if you can't contribute 30 edits, you are demoted. What about Winter Moon? He is out, yet he can still edit here snd there to maintain his position and stay active. If you see my rant similar to this, you'll see what I'm talking about. Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 11:18, June 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * To exemplify what Tom, was saying; If a user makes only twenty-five edits like this, this or this, they would still be punsihed although they had gone to the effort of adding over half a gigabyte's worth of information. The system is fine as it is. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 08:48, June 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * This vote has ended, but I feel I need to add my two cents on this. So here it goes. Winter Moon has not abused any rule. He has every right to edit as little as possible, as he might be busy with his life outside this wiki. That is what some people can never fathom on here, people have lives outside this wiki. I hope a stupid proposal like this never pops up again. If it does, I shall delete it immediately, as in my opinion, it is nothing but trolling. Messi1983 (talk) 06:41, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree. Not only it is trolling, but it is greed. This purposal is actually wanting inactive staff to go demoted so current patrollers or normal good editors can apply for promotion. In a way, you, Messi, were inactive due to medical reasons. That's excuseable. Most staff go inactive without any reasons (sans Winter Moon). Hypotheticly speaking, if this purposal came to fruitition, inactive admins would go inactive and it would have made room for patrollers, wanting to become admin so badly. Same thing for patrollers; I'm inactive, but I have a reason for that. If I get demoted, Instulent and/or Kingrrhem would get my position. That's is just greed and it is awfully unfair and wrong. Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 23:45, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Edit guide for new users who don't know how to edit and use the Wikia

 *  Idea extended below this purposal --Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 00:12, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

So, let put the cards on the table, I have an idea and I think it should be applied. The point is, new users ( a lot of people with less then 10 edits who started their accounts few days ago ) and they simply start editing the pages, without to have the knowledge and sense, how it works and how to use the Wikia ( edits formation, use of the talk page ). That's why I started to "keep an eye" in these users, normally I check the Wiki Activity everyday and I see edits from newbies, 50% from these edits are completely wrong, ( having nothing to share with gta, catastrophic grammar, messing up the pages ) and unfortunately I need to revert it, after this I always post in their talk pages a little advice and help how to edit and they don't even answer it. So my idea is, when someone creates an account, he/she should receive a edit guide and read it all before start editing in the Wikia, that should help them. I appreciate your positive acknowledgment. --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 20:31, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Votes

 * Yes - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 20:36, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 00:27, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - Sasquatch101 (talk) 03:49, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - Boomer8 (talk) 04:24, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - Messi1983 (talk) 06:08, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - Dodo8 Talk
 * Yes - ILan ( XD &bull; Edits &bull; Home ) 04:25, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Comments

 * Then, as well as the "Welcome" automated message, there should be an automated "Edit guide" too. Not sure every newbie'd read it anyways, but it's worth giving a try. - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 20:38, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, I thought of something even better that that flimsy automated message and the Edit Guide....... A Welcome/Greet New Users Template. I will create it. It will say the usual good faith of new users and ones new to Wikia, the Wikia Editing Guide link, Contents of GTA Wiki (i.e. Vehicles, Weapons, Characters etc. organized in links to take them into category pages about the such. If they need any help, I will provide the links to the Staff rank category page. How's that? Best Idea so far? Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 00:27, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea, T. - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 10:17, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice one T, that would be even more better. - --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 17:10, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Sasquatch101 (talk) 03:49, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * This sounds like a good idea. Boomer8 (talk) 04:24, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

The "Welcome New Users" Template Layout
In continuation of Tom's purposal above, I had concocted an idea on how to make new users of GTA Wiki or Wikia, in general. The Welcome New Users Template. This new template will replace the currently used (and bland) "Welcome" automated message and will make the user understand what is done around here or around in Wikia.

I am still writing the template's coding, but I am not going to reveil it because if I do and this purposal gets all "No's", it will just be a waste of time, vice versa, if "Yes's" are a majority of the "No's", then I will reveil it.

Here is the template's layout will be:
 * "Welcome to GTA Wiki!" 
 * Introduction about the wiki and what's on here
 * "Contents" --What we have on the wiki; category (or other) links to them.
 * GTA Games
 * Characters
 * Weapons
 * Vehicles (With the Manual of Style/Vehicles description/link alongside it.)
 * "Policies" --Brief introduction about the policies. If they want to see it all, there will be a link to it. Also, an Edit Guide (if we have one).
 * Number of the common policies
 * Contacting the Staff
 * Patrollers
 * Admins
 * Bureaucrats
 * "Outroduction" --good faith/luck to the new editors
 * Admins
 * Bureaucrats
 * "Outroduction" --good faith/luck to the new editors

I think it is possible to replace the current automated message with this template in mediawiki.css, but we have to find out first. This will familiarize new users, who are new to editing, to understand how things work around here, where to contact staff members if vandal bombardment is going on, etc.

Also if this template is succesful, I will be applying it on my upcoming wiki and our afilliates.

Staff Members are welcome to add, alter, or change the WNU layout in the Comments.

Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 00:12, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Votes

 * Yes - Sasquatch101 (talk) 05:40, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 19:49, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes  - Dodo8 Talk
 * Yes - ILan ( XD &bull; Edits &bull; Home ) 04:25, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Comments

 * I think it needs a bit more planning, but it is a good idea. - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 19:57, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Extra, Non-Related Idea: I think we could add flags near our name on the Staff page so if the user is Portuguese for example, he might contact Mickey. Dodo8 Talk
 * I wrote the coding in exactly 25 minutes:

Template:Welcome

What do you think? Dodo8 Talk
 * It's good, but I wrote the template background and color coding. The template's background will have a grey color. The content in the template is easy; Vinewood style. Once I get the template background working, we'll have it replaced by that annoying automated message in no time. Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 23:36, July 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * You could give me the link, so we can finish it quickly. Dodo8 Talk
 * I wrote it on a notebook paper, which I left somewhere on my bookshelf . No worries, I'll do it. :) --Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 23:38, July 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok :D Dodo8 Talk

The country you live in next to your name on the Staff page

 * RESOLVED: 100% Support - Dodo8 Talk

I was thinking of this so the users in need of help, who for example are Portuguese-native, to talk to Mikey K. or Istalo.

See the complete templates

Votes

 * Yes - Sasquatch101 (talk) 02:21, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 16:12, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 20:16, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ya -- Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 00:28, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes -- ILan ( XD &bull; Edits &bull; Home ) 04:25, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes -- Cloudkit01 (talk) 04:29, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Comments

 * This is a great idea. Showing the country your in repesents how we all come from different places but all love the GTA series! 100% Yes. Sasquatch101 (talk) 02:21, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Perfect idea, with these flags, the users that can't speak English so good, they can contact a staff member from the same country, to speak/ask clearly to help.Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 16:12, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree with both of the reasons above. Good idea, Dragos. - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 20:16, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Demotion - Winter Moon

 * RESOLVED - Motion support falls short of the 70% threshold. The course of discussion has also become cyclic. To avoid any escalation this motion has therefore not passed. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 11:17, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

Before I start in I just want to acknoledge that Winter Moon has been and amazing contributor to the GTA Wiki, and hope that no matter what the outcome of this proposal, that he continues to thrive in whatever position he is in on this wiki.

As we all have seen, Wintermoon who is currently a GTA Wiki admin, is very inactive and has to date (July 5) not made one edit in over a month since June 4. From what I know, a GTA Staff member must not have made an edit in 60 days for a default demotion to occur. Wintermoon has not broken this rule, but nonetheless, is a very inactive user on the wiki. An ill conceived demotion request was filed about a week ago (thrown out by Jeff), and was laced with attacks and nonsense that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I recognize that it might seem distressful to demote a long standing editor who has been of great help to the GTA Wiki. That is why I belive the best way to deal with this transition is to leave the door open for Wintermoon so he in the future has the option of going for admin again is he so pleases. He may just be fine with the patroller position. I believe the best thing for the wiki would to promote an admin right away so the wiki won't be disrupted with a vacant admin position that could instead be a full time admin. I would like see Wintermoon as a retired cop who still keeps his gun metaphorically. As a part-time admin wouldn't be that bad. So taking this all into consideration, I ask respectfully that the position Wintermoon is in be cleared for a more active replacement. Thankyou.


 * Note from the bureaucrats - this discussion is ONLY about whether to demote Winter Moon or not. Discussions and debates on what to do about inactive administrators should be its' own topic of discussion and not forced into this one.


 * Addendum - User:Boomer8 may not participate in this discussion, nor may he request that others participate in this discussion on his behalf. Neither may he vote.


 * This discussion will run until 11th July. To get demoted, since admins require a 70% 'yes' margin to get promoted, a demotion request requires a 70% 'no' margin.

Votes

 * Yes - Sasquatch101 (talk) 04:54, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Jeff (talk|stalk) 06:41, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 08:21, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - Dodo8 Talk
 * N...Yes - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 10:59, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 12:33, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Tom Talk 13:12, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Cloudkit01 (talk) 13:49, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes - 'Kingrhem'  Talk 14:38, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - ILan ( XD &bull; Edits &bull; Home ) 14:59, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * No - Messi1983 (talk) 15:18, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nope - istalo (Talk to me) 1:34, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Mr. T., That&#39;s Me! (talk) 09:53, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Comments
As a bureaucrat, I don't have a problem with pressing the button to remove Winter Moon's administrator position if that's what the community decides. The previous request for demotion (the one that was started by Boomer and rewritten by me) was removed because the discussion rambled way too far off topic. Another thing I wish to make absolutely clear is that a vacant administrator spot (or patroller spot, or even bureaucrat spot) does not guarantee that it will be filled - far better to have an empty spot than an unqualified staff member. Jeff (talk|stalk) 06:41, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * My opinion on Winter Moon's demotion remains the same as it was last time - I don't believe in punishing people for things they have not done.
 * Technically he is still active and he is an established member of staff so I don't reallt see much point in his demotion. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 08:23, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * He edits once a few weeks. I know from Ilan that he was a great contributor, but he's too inactive. BTW, shouldn't this request be on the GTA Wiki:Requests for Promotion? Dodo8 Talk
 * I wish I'd known him better, so I could really say if he was a good admin. Looks to me like he was, but he's not active any more. And as an admin, you have to be active so you can keep a watchful eye on the wiki. Thus, I have voted "Yes". - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 11:04, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Let's talk very pacifically here but I got to talk what I think. What Winter Moon is doing is is injustice, he has the acknowledgment that he is an admin but he doesn't take interest. And guess what? He has ONLY 50 EDITS since the beginning of this year. The patrollers are doing hard work and each patroller wants to get promoted to admin but this wish cannot be completed because there is an admin that doesn't do nothing. Actually an admin has a more important responsibility as a patroller but not in the case from W.M.. It's my free-mind opinion, I think it was time enough to organize and debate the things very earnestly here. --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 12:33, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Tom, I think you are being very unreasonable towards Winter Moon. You don't know what is going on behind the seens nor does anybody for that fact. I agree with some parts that he isn't up to the standards, but there is no need to drop a ton of bricks on him... Instulent (talk) 12:50, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * He should be demoted to make a room for other editors to become admins 'Kingrhem'  Talk 14:38, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Same reasons as Jeff and Jonny - I too don't believe in "punishing" users for something they didn't do - especially when it comes to experienced editors who, how to describe it, have a "clean" record. But if this is what the community wants, so be it. -- ILan ( XD &bull; Edits &bull; Home ) 14:59, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * And what if they stop using their experiences? Like in this case. Dodo8 Talk
 * Winter Moon has done nothing wrong what so ever. We don't punish people on here for having a life off the wiki. Just because some users live on this wiki, doesn't mean everyone should. I certainly don't. Messi1983 (talk) 15:23, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * If this was a B'crat only vote, WM would stay as admin as me, Jeff, and Tom voted no. So did out next possible B'crat in line Ilan. Messi1983 (talk) 15:29, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nothing against Messi but I don't understand why the b'cats are defending W.M, there will be nothing wrong if he gets demoted to patroller and another patroller gets promoted. The world will not end. It's just a website. If the patrollers prove they can work more than one admin so where's the problem? He even doesn't know it. We gotta think a little more logically, people. So don't think nothing badly about, I'm not putting no one for demotion, but I think it's better to demote him and give a chance to other patroller. Nice, peaceful and clearly. --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 16:28, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes there is something wrong with demoting him. He has done nothing wrong to warrant demotion. There is nothing wrong with him staying on as an administrator however, as again he has done NOTHING wrong. That is the reason why B'crats like me are defending him. I might close this request as a null and void on the fact he has done nothing wrong and is still active(in the sense that he does edit in a 3 month period). Messi1983 (talk) 16:55, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thomas, I think the reason the b'crats are defending Winter Moon is because we've been around wikis longer and we don't feel the sense of urgency that you guys who haven't been around as long do. It was the same way when Joshualeverburg was vandalizing - the patrollers got really upset about it but the b'crats just sort of rolled their eyes, blocked him and went on about their business. In the view of myself (and I assume Dan and Tom think similar) demoting someone who was a good editor is worse than having vandalism last a couple extra hours, which was the original reason patrollers started criticizing Winter Moon in the first place. Jeff (talk|stalk) 17:20, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry Messi, but at no one point I said that it was something wrong with him, I admit that he was a great editor. No matter what is right or wrong here. And no, he's not active. In my opinion this three-month rule is ridiculous. Look, where's the logic in there? I just only think that he's not active (yes, he's not, less than 50 edit per year means not active ) and you b'cats should give a chance to a patroller. Just take it easy, and don't witness my attitude, judging me one day if I want to get promoted because of this. It's just my opinion... --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 17:39, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * I know you did not say that and I never said you said that. I am just putting my case across for him to stay as an admin. Messi1983 (talk) 20:23, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, it's alright, no problem. The Community Vote is already tied, but if W.M stays as admin it's okay to me. Let's see how the things will unwind in the next days... --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 20:41, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * I see no reason on why demoting him... istalo (Talk to me) 1:34, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * It looks like the requset will fail anyway but I still feel the same. I am not trying to attack WM as you are all right, HE HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG. However I belive there can be a balance between granted excelent admins that are part-time, and admins active all the time. I suggested that WM be retired with his admin rights but just put in inactive status so a full time admin could take his place. I see everyones point on how he is an upstanding editor, but he still has to be active more than once a month. I saw a few comments up that the edit requirement is one edit per three months (thought it was every 60 days). Making one edit per quarter of a year sounds like a part-time admin. I know this diverts from my original proposal but I was thinking this would be something to consider it it won.Sasquatch101 (talk) 03:01, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * I am now bored of you lot trying to justify why he should be demoted. The same rubbish gets stated again and again, and you guys still don't understand any part of HE HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG to justify being demoted. Apart from June, WM has edited more than once a month, so don't make it out like it is common from him. I find it hilarious how most of the patrollers have voted yes to demote him. Wow, what a coincidence ;) Messi1983 (talk) 06:16, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * If you would have been a patroller you would have felt the same way. Someone who does NOTHING for the Wiki occupies a place that could be taken by a patroller who works hard. Enough said. Dodo8 Talk
 * 100% respect towards Dodo and Sasquatch, and too by Boomer in his talk page. Pure injustice. Think a little more logical. And Messi, please don't talk to the patrollers in this ironic and hilarious tone like we were nothing here on the Wikia --Thomas0802 (talk-Edits) 09:50, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Dodo I am not a patroller though, I am a B'crat. Don't you think if WM's somewhat inactivity was a problem, then I'd deal with it being a B'crat or vote yes?
 * Thomas, you wouldn't know what justice was if it slapped you in the face and do not patronise me on how I talk to patrollers. Messi1983 (talk) 11:19, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Dan, you are being patronizing though, and it's really not cool no matter how annoying it gets. Especially since you could block them for the same thing.
 * Boomer, Thomas, Dodo, Sasquatch, you guys are just going to have to accept the fact that the proposal has failed, and you'll have to get over it. There was this one time when I was in favor of a policy called Competence. When no one else was, I dropped it and promised them that I would never suggest it again. Dan, Tom and Ilan all remember when that happened. If I can handle the fact that people didn't like my idea, so can you. Wikipedia has an essay that you should follow in this circumstance, called "drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass."
 * I haven't handed out any blocks (or more technically, handed out a couple and then decided that throwing my weight around was the exact wrong thing to do in a situation where the community is so divided and undid them).
 * The only warning I am going to make is that patrollers are expected to understand our rules like GTA Wiki:Civility and GTA Wiki:No Personal Attacks. I would hope that any person who was able to get promoted onto staff would be able to explain exactly what was wrong with this and why it fully deserved the 1 day block it received. Jeff (talk|stalk) 23:20, July 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * In my point of wiew, Boomer got blocked for the "too many stomps", for a lot of sentences that could be understood as "attacks". I think he has learned his lesson, though. And while conserving my opinion about this matter, I recognize this conversation has went down a dark path. - Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 13:20, July 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * If I had blocked them, that would've been unfair blockage and the thought never crossed my mind. I was patronising yes. But you and I know both know that patronising is sometimes the only way to deal with kids who never listen nowadays. Anyways this subject should be forgotten and never mentioned again. Messi1983 (talk) 06:03, July 9, 2013 (UTC)