Talk:Victor Vance

Year of Birth
The information states that he is 28 years old in 1984, meaning he could have been born in either 1955 or 1956. If he was born in 1955 it would mean he'd be 29 by the end of 1984, but could still have been 28 at the time of GTA Vice City Stories. A-Dust 17:26, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Death
Yeah I know it's the death situation brought up again. But I don't get it, why is the article written in a "100% sure" way like it's been proved completely that Vic died. Rockstar never said anything about who it really was and we can't do anything other than speculate. It's just as fair as adding the same thing in the Pete Vance article. I strongly believe that Vic is alive and didn't take part in the deal, if you need reasons for my theory then I'll show em up. GTA 4 PC 15:06, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The only Vance brother mentioned, other than Lance, is Victor. He is listed on the official GTA Vice City website as the leader of the Vance Crime Family. Lance's police record shows he just arrived in town with his brother, which is Victor. There is no mention of Pete Vance whatsoever, he was just added for the GTA Vice City Stories storyline. A-Dust 15:27, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It's just a police report and if you actually connect the two games then you'll see quite a few good reasons as to why it can't be Vic. I know it's just speculation, but the file naming "Victor Vance" doesn't show anything other than him running the Vance Crime Family and being Lance's brother. Vic in VCS said numerous times he hates drugs and doesn't want any involvement with them in any way once he's got the money for Pete's health. He sends the money in the end of VCS. Maybe the article should be a little less sure. I am explained it in awful wording but I mean like (1955/1956 - 1986(?) ), I'm just wondering why the believers of Vic's death in VC have what they think is true as fact and we (who believe the opposite) are unreliable? You gotta look at both sides instead of looking for the slightest mention. So let me ask a question, if that was Vic why did he have a different accent and why did he act like somebody who had some kind of sickness? I'm just making a point as to why we shouldn't be so clearly sure about it when the game developers haven't said a word. GTA 4 PC 15:59, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * First of all, Vic also said he did not want to become involved in the criminal world, and by the end of GTA Vice City Stories he is the biggest criminal in the entire city. As for the drugs, he could either have been corrupted by 1986 or needed more money for Pete. As for the different accent, that is called a retcon. As for sickness, maybe he was sick at the time. When Victor is the only Vance brother (other than Lance) mentioned for GTA Vice City, then it should be clear that it is Vic and not Pete, who was created to further GTA Vice City Stories storyline. A-Dust 16:23, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * And your answers are all personal opinions as well. Vic is only mentioned on the police report. My point to make it look like Pete is that Lance was ignored by Vic and decided to get Pete (who was getting better) to do the deal and then the police mistook the brother for being Vic since he was known around the city. As we see I don't see this discussion ever coming to an end and rather just more and more reasons as to why each side believes something. Well I'm going to put my five top reasons as to why Vic wasn't the brother present in VC.

1. Vic in VCS didn't have an accent and spoke English in a proper American way. - Yes that's one of the main reasons we believe Pete died instead, there is no reason Vic would change his way of speaking like that.

2. The guy in VC sounded like he had suffered from asthma or some sickness. - That's the case with Pete, in the end of VCS Vic sends some money to him and the bills are paid so he gets better.

3. The appearance between Vic and the VC brother changes a lot. - Not only clothes, but the eyes and the head size have suddenly changed? I know weight, hair and stuff can change in two years but never knew that could happen to eyes and size of head.

4. Vic said he was out by the end of VCS. - True, he said there's no way he's dealing anymore because he's got all he was out for when he was in the army but instead with the empire. He leaves it behind and lays low. Lance is good at convincing? But what excuses are there when Vic has no longer anything to worry about? At first we could understand he needed the money and all, but now he's sent the needed money to Pete and it's done.

5. Lance after being ignored by Vic could have asked Pete to team up in Vice City and do the drug deal. - Lance was the pilot, in VCS Vic told him to never ever drive again after "Jive Drive", plus in the deals in VCS it was always Lance who traded with the buyers/dealers and Vic was only there to save him from trouble. In VC it's the complete opposite?

That's what I have to say, now I know you'll come back with a bunch of excuses to cover all these plot holes (if you want to consider it this way) but that's what I have to say. --GTA 4 PC 16:35, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

The first reason can be explained through a retcon. Your second point is opinion, besides, Victor could be ill or have contracted a disease between 1984 and 1986. The third can be explained through retcon. Maybe Vic has problems caused by Lance, maybe Pete's condition gets worse or maybe he needs money to help his mother kick the habit. Or maybe he just wants more power and money, being resentful of Diaz getting all the money after he had killed the Mendez Brothers and Martinez. As for the fifth point, maybe Victor doesn't want Lance to screw up after he did so many times in GTA Vice City Stories. Also, it seems the only excuses are coming from you in your attempt to prove something that is incorrect and has been proven otherwise. Vic is the Vance brother killed as he is the only Vance brother (other than Lance) mentioned on the GTA Vice City website and prior to VCS. A-Dust 23:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * All of your responses are opinions as well. And Vic is never mentioned in the game (VC) but his name is dropped as Lance's brother on the website and that was put when VCS was released, right? That is something obvious for me, that means they wanted to make the Vic's death supporters a little bit to backup and then the Pete side have more reasons. Plus in Lance's file in the police report it just mentions 'his brother' not Victor Vance. And Vic could have just been around the city but not in the business or as the police heard Lance's arrival with his brother they quickly thought of Vic since he was the big criminal alongside Lance. So it can be mistaken as Vic as well... Either way, I find it unfair how "Vic's death" theory supporters have their opinion shown as fact whereas the opposite has only a small section with none of the reasons I pointed showing up. --GTA 4 PC 15:01, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, my main response if fact - Victor is mentioned on the GTA Vice City website whereas Pete is mentioned for four until Vice City Stories was released. The reason it is shown as fact is because it is fact, whilst the pure fan fic idea of Pete is not. A-Dust 21:11, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Not really, I don't see how it's a fact, he's just mentioned, that takes too long to explain all over, so I wont bother. But I don't see it as a fact, R* never confirmed who it was in the end so I still don't see why we should start typing out things that are not even confirmed as it will cause more confusion. And a bit random but why is your name in orange now? --GTA 4 PC 21:16, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Gboyers changed the colouring of links back to staff members name, with Admins being orange. This is designed to make the staff members names stand out from the blue and red links on the wiki. Although I can't see it anyway. A-Dust 22:29, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

So, why does this article have to be written in such a certain way concerning the death situation? I did my best to make it look non-speculating, but A-Dust reverted it without explanation on the edit summary. It's best to say that the Vance brother was possibly Vic and that he is indeed not mentioned in the game at any point by name but only on the crime tree of VC's site which doesn't exactly clear up anything either. My 2 cents, besides I don't care what anyone say, I just am tired of being linked to fan-sites and wiki's on forums whenever I'm into this argument. As update, I see you are trying to add "sources" to show what you believe, but honestly you can go and dig up millions of reviews saying Vic is dead or fan sites but none of them actually answer the question. It's like fan-sites and wiki assist together in this to get as many people to believe them and things they say. I'm not saying it's impossible that Vic died but to make it as "fair" as possible to all believers of this theory it's best to just type "possibilities" and "thoughts" as no one is gonna get confused or recommended to believe what this site amongst many other write. And the gamespot source(s) is/are not the best ever to use as it's just reviews. I mean I can also go and write a review on VCS then type throughout that Vic wasn't present in VC, but that doesn't mean it's a fact, it's just what I think on the whole situation. --GTA 4 PC 16:00, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Death 2
That guy in the cutscene didn't look like Vic, didn't sound like Vic, and didn't act like Vic. C'mon, if you've played VCS you know he's sensible, and an ex-Corporal in the army. He wouldn't just die like that, and seriously, he didn't need to run drug deals anymore. If you remember, Lance never mentions that Vic died, he just referred to him as "my brother". I'm thinking Lance is happy Pete isn't sick anymore, and decides to take him to Vice City. Silver Infernus


 * First of all, please do not insert items into the middle of a discussion, whether the discussion is in progress or not. Put any replies at the bottom of the page.
 * As for your argument, I have rebutted every one of your statements above. Voice and appearance are retcons. As for Victor being sensible, he is capable of moments of anger: for example telling Lance "You get moving right now, or I shoot you first" during the mission Light My Pyre. As for him "dying like that", he was ambushed and was unprepared, thinking that the deal would go smoothly because only a few people were in the know. He died because Gonzales informed Ricardo Diaz. Also, just to note, asthma can not be cured, so Pete would still be sick two years later. Yes it is controlable, but not curable. It is true that Victor is not mentioned by name, but the only other Vance brother named prior to GTA Vice City Stories is Victor, who is also on the VCPD noticeboard on the GTA Vice City website. A-Dust 23:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, it's definately Vic because Vice City's game files say that he's Vic. So in a way Rockstar did tell you who he was, just not during gameplay.--spaceeinstein 00:04, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * None of the Vice City game files even reveal Vic's name. Let's put it like this, when VC was released in 2002, R* had no plans of a VCS and so they made Lance a major character and his unnamed brother who dies in the beginning of the game. Then VCS came to R*'s mind and they decided to make a brother of Lance's, the protagonist, they named him Victor Vance and added another brother Pete Vance that seems to be coincidentally similar to the brother in VC who gets killed considering the fact, Nameless Vance is sounding like he's suffering from asthma and walks like a handicap, this was the case with Pete from his brothers' words. From my view, it's neither of them who is killed, just an unnamed brother. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that when VCS was released, R* filled their VCPD noticeboard on the VC website with Vic's name and as the cops in GTA can never be trusted (The Audition, anyone?), it can be wrong and anything might happen, so we shouldn't be so certain and go ahead saying it was Vic until R* confirms it. --GTA 4 PC 23:51, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I've changed the article a bit and made all the statements about his death, undecided. That's the best way we can go ahead with it. Because the only things that should stated as facts are words coming from the game developers mouth, which is Rockstar. Discuss before making any changes on this situation. --GTA 4 PC 21:59, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that, I checked and found no reference either. I don't know where I got the idea that it was.--spaceeinstein 22:21, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Death Deletion
I'm going to delete traces of Vic from Vice City, it wasnt proven that he actually died, so we shouldnt make guesses Qwerty4965324 00:28, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Vic Vance really died in VC
Please people stop saying that it wasn't Vic who died at the beginning of VC. It really was him. R* confirmed it http://www.rockstargames.com/news/2009/09/18/741/your_questions_answered_–_re_vice_city_red_dead_redemption_and_chinatown_wars

You're gonna argue with Rockstar Games?!


 * If people are still going to delete Vic's death information, then the page can be locked. It's clearly confirmed that Vic died.--Spaceeinstein 20:11, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, I'm surprised that Rockstar finally confirmed it. I always thought it was Vic who died (I believe there is a resemblence between Vic in VC and VCS that nobody else appears to see), but I thought that they would never reveal the secret and it would remain a mystery. I wonder whether they'll ever officially confirm Claude's real name. Christophee (talk) 00:38, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * They somewhat confirmed Claude's real name through their Facebook app. And why was my sig edited? --Spaceeinstein 09:36, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

VIVA VV
'''

Vic Vance lives. Based on the evidence, any commentary to the contrary is claptrap. His fate can no longer be determined by the author(s). Their indecisiveness left his destiny to the non prejudicial, non bias interpretation of gta common gaming sense. The type of sense that kicks in when the writers try to rectify control of fate from the stories gaming evidence, but risk making themselves look stupid in the process. They could've served themselves and the franchise better by leaving the story open. PS- To darkhedge. Do not delete my commentary again...This is the discussion page, no doubt. NIM 16:39, December 21, 2009 (UTC).
 * Sorry NIM but GT-AJ is right. I deleted your commentary because you didn't read the news. Now it's fact, canon and explained by R* themselves there is no more debate to be had. Don't see it as personal or because I'm a pro-VV-is-dead, and sorry for the inconveniences. DarkHedge 17:00, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

NIM, Vic Vance dies, I don't like that he dies, I'd prefer he lived, but Rockstar Games themselves, said on their website Q&A that it was actually Vic who died in Vice City. It sucks, but thats the way it is. Grand Theft AJ 22:41, December 21, 2009 (UTC)