Forum:Is Mike Toreno - U.L Paper situation

This topic has popped up every now and then in conversation. Despite Rockstar saying that the eras of GTA3 and 4 have no connection whatsoever I beg to differ. It's quite obvious that the two eras are linked...I don't need to explain that

The question is 'Is Mike Toreno and the U.L Paper guy the same person?'

Definately yes

To start both characters look distinctively identical in physical appearence..the U.L Paper guy has just aged a bit. Afterall GTA San Andreas is set in 1992 and GTA4 is 2008. Thats 16 years...people change in physical appearance slightly within that time bracket. So when Niko enters that office that middle-aged man sitting behind that desk with the glasses IS Mike Toreno.

But that's only a small indication...there's a lot more to it. They're both ruthless government agents of some sort. They both have tendancies to fuck with the player's mind by getting them to do dangerous and complex missions, saying they'll benefit from it by and they'll be rewarded. But when really they even admit they're just saying that to keep them coming back to do more missions and only much later does the player get let off the hook and get what he originally asked for. The U.L. Paper guy and Toreno reveal very little about themselves and who they work for and do a good job of keeping those things a secret. They tend to ring the player at random times when least expected and during these calls what they're saying indicates that they're spying on the player (i.e the U.L. Paper guy knows Niko found Bernie Crane and slags him about it). Overall both characters manage to test the players patience, pushing him to the very limit (CJ even pulling a gun on Toreno) and that's when they will give in. They also bullshit about how these tasks are making the world safer. They also carry the same point of view that sometimes bad things have to happen to good people....

The actual missions that Mike Toreno and the U.L Paper order the player to do are extremely similiar aswell. They almost always involve stealing or destroying a vehicle, infiltrating a base of some sort or making a certain someone 'disappear'. The missions are always a challenge aswell.........

After the the player has eventually busted his back multiple times and has gotten rewarded for the efforts...Neither Mike Toreno or the U.L Paper guy are seen or heard from again.

If anyone wants to challenge me on this opinion, feel free to leave a comment....

HarveyH92 17:04, July 5, 2010 (UTC) OK, good evidence. Sadly, GTA4 is in a DIFFERENT CANON, so this is just a fairy tale -- Delo19xcrowbarx

What exactly is a canon? is it another fancy word for world or era or something? I don't get it....Like I know Rockstar said something about GTA3 and 4 having no connection....But it's obvious that there is some link. OG Loc and Madd Dogg appear on LP and magazine covers. Cluckin' Bells and Burger Shot are in both GTA San Andreas and GTA4. The Truth who is in GTA San Andreas is said to have an account on Craplist.com under the name 'The Trooth'. Vinewood, in San Andreas is mentioned on some travel site alonside Vice City. Rockstar could just be denying that there is no connection between the two eras in order not reveal whats in store for GTA fans in the next GTA game.....Maybe a character from a past GTA game will make an appearence?HarveyH92 17:39, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

HarveyH92 17:39, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

let me explain what canon is. there are 2 universes called GTA3 and GTA4. these universes are similar, but they don't know anything about each other. There is no Niko Bellic in GTA3 etc

how do you explain all the different names for Liberty City in GTA4? and all the things you named are all references to GTA3. cameo appearences, easter eggs, whatever, its not canon, just referencing the previous era. The fact of the matter is, What Rock* says, goes. they said there was no connection END OF STORY. like the fact that it was Vic that dies in GTAVC not Pete. stop trying to prove it otherwise.

Heres another way of looking at it; imagine that GTA3 and GTA4 are movies. Liberty City is actually New York, there is a film crew following the protagonists and Niko and Claude(and everyone for that matter) are actors. Now, GTA3 is Die Hard 5, GTA4 the Transporter 4. Both action movies set in New York (supposedly) but they are not in the same universe. GTA4 is not Die Hard 6.

now, doesn't that make sense?

the great and wise Delo19xcrowbarx

'''Canon in terms of what it means, means that everything that is canon is to be considered as part of the story. ''' If someone makes an unoffical sequal and does whatever the hell they want then it is not canon. Second thing though, GTA 3 and 4 are in the same canon universe, rockstar has said that, so when you say what rockstar says goes then you are saying they are part of the same universe. What they did say is they didn't want them to cross over, mainly in large because they said most of the characters where most likely dead by 2008 anyway.

Wait, I thought they said they were starting over with GTA4?

Delo19xcrowbarx 07:46, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, and they did more or less. But people tend to mistake that with making something unrelated. I mean I'm not saying toreno and the U.L. guy are the same person, I have no idea. But this is cronologically a continuation of the series as apposed to a reboot of the franchise. It gets a little complicated if you over think it.

ah, I guess that makes sense. IF these games are in the same universe(which they aren't), than I think it is intirely possible that that they are the same person. Delo19xcrowbarx 05:40, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Integrity 2.0 with lazlo make numoruse references to thing that would not exist if these were two different universe.

well, actually, thats not true as Laslow did things differently. or that he was in Vice city, but not in GTA3 canonDelo19xcrowbarx 07:06, July 29, 2010 (UTC)