GTA Wiki talk:Manual of Style/Vehicles

Good idea
Good idea creating this manual of style, it will help users who are interested in cars. :) Dodo8 Talk


 * I agree!
 * Mikey Klebbitz (talk) 09:16, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

The issue of customised vehicles
I'm not really keen on heading down the road of custom vehicles. I would rather just keep the articles concerning the stock model and special occurrences that other characters use.

I would like to try and maintain a more neutral and formal style by not including modified vehicles. I would like to cite Wikipedia as an example of the sort of formality I would like to aim for, but stick to this wiki's original style where possible.

I'm not sure if we should include a "modifications" section on the upcoming articles, hopefully discussing this now will give us enough time to create a solution and structure if need be. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 11:57, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

Daylight Opening (DLO)
Somewhere along the line in my automotive and transport design degree I learned that what we commonly refer to as a "greenhouse", is broken into DLO and roofline in design terms. I do not wish to complicate design sections any further, so will not be introducing any more terminology of this kind, but it has at least been acknowledged here. If anybody would want these terms included, then persuasive comments should follow. JBanton (Talk | Contribs) 07:03, October 25, 2014 (UTC)

Updates required and proposed
This MoS hasn't kept pace with GTAV and its enhanced version and the updates to infoboxes and trivia sections that have become the norm. Pre-modified versions of vehicles can now spawn naturally. 1st person mode introduced increased interior level of detail. Proposed changes:

Format
The standard format that shall be used for all new vehicle articles created after dd mmmm yyyy is as follows. Under Heading 2 (heading 3 for insets), the following sections must be created in this order;


 * (No headings required for opening section). Necessary maintenance templates such as unreleased, stub or cleanup along with the vehicles infobox Infobox vehicles containing a front quarter image (of the most up-to-date version of the vehicle where available) and a rear quarter image linked . Beside the infobox should be a single sentence introducing the vehicle; it's full name ( manufacturer part of full name should be kept separate for vehicles that have appeared in games that did not have manufacturer designations ), body style and the title(s) that it appears in. quote from the in-game online dealership that sells the vehicle.


 * Design
 * Design & Performance Gallery Vehicle Design Gallery  (see below)
 * Design History Gallery Vehicle Design History Gallery  with all prior game version images.
 * Performance


 * Overview Vehicle Stats


 * Special occurrences (if any)

Repeat the above for multi-generation vehicles appearing in the same game or where a variant alters any of the above significantly enough to warrant it.


 * Locations (with game appearance sub-headings)


 * Modifications (GTA SA and/or GTAV customs shop table of modifications)


 * Appearance/Special/Modification Gallery


 * Trivia (with game appearance sub-headings)


 * Cultural references


 * Notable owners (if any)


 * Navigation

Notes: Design and Performance gallery (see my sandbox for testing examples): A second gallery to show anything other than stock in game appearance, including special (e.g. unique NPC owned variants), Spawn locations, liveries, video trailer and promotional screenshots, billboards and advertising, naturally spawned modified versions etc).

Content
Each of these sections requires content, whilst maintaining neutrality and third-person perspective for content; Forgot to sign... smurfy (coms) 02:19, December 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Design sections should include, at the beginning a short paragraph outlining the vehicle's real life inspiration(s).  An individual paragraph for design of the front, side (including roof) and rear of the vehicle. Making a total of four paragraphs.
 * 2) Performance sections should include a headed overview, to give readers quick access to statistics about the vehicle. Prior to the overview, the section should include a netural review paragraph referring to how the vehicle handles, its speed/ acceleration and construction and deformation, in the context(s) that are relevant to the vehicle.
 * 3) Gallery sections should include images of the vehicle in stock condition. Each exterior image should be a quarter view and only one quarter view is needed for the rear as the infobox will have the front quarter. An interior shot and engine shot will also be accepted, along with images of 1st person LOD of the interior, badging detail and extracted badging/texture images from the game files, front, side, back, top and bottom "elevation" views making a total of no more than 12 (more if a roadster version exists) images in the gallery. Each image must adhere to the image policy and not include watermarks or markings.
 * 4) Special Occurrences - these are commonly occurring versions of the vehicle that appear without player intervention; vehicles that are driven by other characters or appear exclusively in missions. A gallery with a front quarter view and link to rear quarter view in the caption should conclude this section. Images for these variants should be included in the main page gallery rather then the Design and Performance gallery above. In the case that many permutations (x > 5) can be obtained from one mission or activity, only one example should be given.
 * 5) Locations divided into each game appearance are also in bullet-point format, including areas where the vehicle is driven by other characters and parked locations.
 * 6) Trivia sections divided into each game appearance are in bullet-point format and shall include radio information, errors or unique features that the vehicle may have. Cultural reference sections will be used if the vehicle has any connection to media, language or culture in any way.
 * 7) Navigation sections should include the relevant navboxes, but should only be added after text has been added to all of the lead infobox categories, (so that editors can easily add new categories to the lead infobox without wrecking it; the navboxes disable the visual editor).

Update after testing and gallery template construction
Testing on one of the most complex vehicle pages (the Banshee) and a simple page (the Elegy RH8) in my sandbox... (Banshee with new MoS) and (RH8 with new MoS) revealed that the Design gallery really needs to appear above the Performance section for logical continuity. smurfy (coms) 08:43, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

How do we determine whether to combine on a single page or split?
This is the cause of much debate on the wiki and there should be some rules specified around what criteria must be met for a vehicle to have a unique page as opposed to being a variant or generational update on a single vehicle page.

Proposal
I propose a relatively simple qualification criteria, to have their own page, a vehicle must satisfy ALL of the following conditions in at least one game in the series: A vehicle that doesn't have all of these should not be split. A vehicle that does have these CAN be split (although it may not be compulsory since some may still qualify as variants).
 * 1) Have a different name in-game. It can't just be a name players use to differentiate between two vehicles that have been named identically by Rockstar. (e.g. At time of writing: Yes = Buffalo and Buffalo S, Sentinel and Sentinel XS, Oracle and Oracle XS. No = Cavalcade, Baller)
 * 2) Have a noticeably different design. Different accessories or Hard-top/Sof-top do not qualify as design changes.
 * 3) Have a performance difference from one another, this can be speed/handling or durability.
 * 4) Have a different $ value in-game.
 * 5) (optional) The different models appear in the same game title.
 * 6) (optional) The game has classified the vehicles in the same group.

This proposal is completely open to discussion and debate here and I will be delaying the above updates to the MoS until we can reach a consensus.

I'm going to set out a table of some examples to assist in determining how well this proposal would work in practice. smurfy (coms) 02:53, March 23, 2015 (UTC)

Table
NOTE: An appearance on this table does not indicate any opinion on the part of the author.

Discussion
Right away, you can see a potential issue with the Sentinel and Sentinel XS which never meets the design difference criteria in 3D or HD universe versions. smurfy (coms) 03:08, March 23, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think I want to get involved with this but here is the important details; In some ways I actually agree with you Leon, and laying the car(d)s out in the table in one discussion is revealing just how inconsistent we have been up 'till now. The final outcome of this whole discussion could quite easily be "No splits allowed", let's merge a heap of pages. smurfy (coms) 03:41, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * Buffalo and Buffalo S: The S is an updgraded facelift variant of the Buffalo, therefore they should be one page; variants
 * Oracle XS and Oracle Sport: Again, the Sport is an upgraded version of the XS, or a second generation; variants
 * Zion and Zion Cabrio: Convertible and coupe; variants
 * Rancher and Rancher XL: The XL is a larger version of the pickup and 4X4 variants; variants
 * Sentinel and Sentinel XS: They do seem like variants of one another, the XS is a hardtop; variants
 * Sultan and Sultan RS: RS (Rally Sport) is an off road racer variant of the Sultan; variants
 * Mesa and Merryweather Mesa: The latter is just an updgraded version for use by a private militia
 * Cavalcade, Schafter, Baller; all different generations
 * Looking at the details of all these cars makes me think, they're all variants. Having separate pages just seems like a bad idea.


 * I guess the main aim is to try to avoid future debate by setting an official policy in place. Of course this can also demonstrate the futility of trying to impose order, consistency and logic on something that Rockstar themselves have been extremely inconsistent with. One size may not fit all. We could end up with 5 or 6 criteria and a 4/6 score may be enough.  smurfy (coms) 03:54, March 23, 2015 (UTC)

IMO, we should be going by what is in-game with a small guide from the game files. If R* remade the name, this is what they want the vehicle to go by as - doesn't matter if it's facelifted. IMO, we shouldn't be merging pages based on their design relations. Different name + design, different page.

Of course I'm NOT talking about the German GTA Wiki level of vehicle pages (literally a page for every single appearance even if it's the exact same vehicle), just saying so that different design + name = different page. That's all.

Anyway, I'm making a table of vehicle models, names, handling, etc. - halfway finished so this might be some bit of a guide for pages and the real vehicle variants. 18:57, March 23, 2015 (UTC)


 * Here's the table I was talking about. v-michael-trunk-mini.jpg V-franklin-trunk-mini.jpg V-trevor-trunk-mini.jpg 16:58, March 24, 2015 (UTC)

Updating as of 15/10/2015
Could someone unlock the page so I can update it to match the style as of now? There's quite a few fixes to be done, mainly what the headings actually say, and some ordering issues which have been fixed on vehicle articles since. Thanks! :) &bull;  &bull;  13:50, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

Modifications Listing
Can we get a concise list of what all options should be shown for GTAV/GTAO modifications for vehicles? I understand the inclusion of vehicle-specific items (roll cages, bumpers, livery, etc). I was also told to include the "standard customization" items (engine upgrades, armor upgrades, brakes, etc.).

This all makes sense to me. I just want to clear up possible exclusions. Wheel and Respray exclusions make sense, as there are a metric ton of different options, and I'm lead to believe each of these options should be the same price across all models. Is this the same for Lights and Horn options? Do we include the Loss/Theft Prevention prices for each vehicle? Explosives? Sell value? I just want to get an idea of how all-inclusive these lists should be, and what can be safely excluded. Daft inquisitor (talk) 05:30, March 5, 2016 (UTC)


 * Here's the design I think we should follow and add as part of the manual of style for vehicles. Suggest any improvements ;)

Baller LE LWB
 * Exclusions:
 * Lights
 * Explosives
 * Plates
 * Wheels
 * Resprays
 * Trims (will need to create a list for these tho, like the primary/secondary colors resprays got here.)


 * Loss/Theft protection is also a requirement for every vehicle's mod list (can't get the cost of the Baller LE LWB's loss/theft at this moment (I only own the LE).)
 * Selling cost could be implemented into the modification list (Like i did on this one), but it'd be stock-selling price only. A list of the selling prices is found here.


 * See what you think. If you're happy with it, use this as a template for other vehicle's Mod lists ;). Monk Talk 13:38, March 5, 2016 (UTC)


 * I'll start using this format on the vehicle mods listings as I update them, but I'll keep checking here for any changes that might come up. Question about the comma separator, though. Do we only want those in instances where it's 5+ figures? It seems inconsistent to neglect them on 4-figure amounts. Daft inquisitor (talk) 15:29, March 5, 2016 (UTC)


 * Ah. That's just how I've been brought up to do it. I'd say just do it like $1,000 and $10,000. Monk Talk 15:48, March 5, 2016 (UTC)


 * If this is ever finalized as the "correct" list/formatting for Modifications, the default template should be updated. Right now, it says to exclude items like engine upgrades. At the very least, it should be clarified for the exceptions present in GTAV/GTAO, even if it stays that same way for older games. Daft inquisitor (talk) 08:07, March 6, 2016 (UTC)

Liveries
The Cunning Stunts update added the bulk of the racing liveried vehicles based on real-life race teams and I can't find any specific discussion around how they should be handled. We seem to have added gallery images for liveries and the influences and cultural references seems to have been relegated to Trivia sections (contradicting the overall Trivia policy). That may have been OK for vehicles with 2 or 3 livery options, but with the addition of the 30 NASCAR-themed liveries for the Hotring Sabre stock car in the San Andreas Super Sports Series, with potentially more to come, I think it's worth dedicating a design sub-section to them. Subsection to include a gallery and cultural references list as well as sponsor links lists like we have for some of the current liveried vehicles. Note: I am talking about sponsored liveries rather than decorative wraps (e.g Windsor) or stripes (e.g. Benny's customs) Smurfy: illuminate - communicate - spectate 23:37, March 21, 2018 (UTC)


 * I think trucks already have a non-MOS livery section, Mule and Yankee I think. Did it simply because they didn't belong in the gallery, seemed more relevant as their own section.
 * Vehicles with sponsoring liveries; so far, I've only done a few pages but I've been putting the front/rear liveries images into the modifications table, see Hermes or GT500 for example. Since they are optional they seem more relevant there, but I still agree a livery section is suitable to at least talk about them. Monk Talk 08:20, March 22, 2018 (UTC)

Removing unnecessary confusion
Can we change "Vehicles that hail from NA will use NA region spellings and EU, AU and JP vehicles will have respective English spellings for such words."

to: "Vehicles that hail from North America will use American spellings; European, Australian, and Japanese vehicles will use British (or Australian) spellings for such words."

There's two reasons: First, the abbreviations NA, AU, etc. are confusing and unnecessary. Second, on "respective English spellings": are there standardized European or Japanese English dialects? No, there are not, so the "respective" part makes no sense and the "English" part is obviously redundant also. My proposed change keeps, I believe, the intention of the original phrase but makes its interpretation much clearer and less ambiguous.

Human-potato hybrid (talk) 04:51, December 12, 2019 (UTC)