GTA Wiki talk:Community Portal/Oasis Archive

Please read the situation explanation before commenting We are not closing down. We are suggesting moving away from wikia, to our own website. To keep informed, follow Grand Theft Wiki on Twitter

Discussion

 * Please use this section to discuss the Oasis skin and the move away from Wikia

This was a discussion I had with Angela Beesley (Wikia Founder) in 2007 before Grand Theft Wiki moved to Wikia: This is just another proof of the breach of trust we have seen from Wikia. They are not keeping the ads away from the content at all, and they are very obtrusive - especially on the new thinner layout. Logged in users see more than one advert, and it does detract significantly from the experience of using the wiki. Gboyers talk 22:29, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * ME: As for Wikia adverts, I understand that this is central to your business and so I wouldn't prevent that. As on WoWWiki, the advertisements aren't brazenly plastered around every pixel of space. Although I never run adverts on my own sites (something about ethics...), so long as they don't detract from the experience of using the Wiki, then I have no qualms with their use.
 * ANGELA: Hopefully you won't find them obtrusive. The new skins were designed to keep the ads away from the content, especially for logged in users where there is just one small ad in the top corner.

Community Answers

 * Please place your answers below, in a similar format to this first post. 

Gboyers talk 22:15, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) What do you think of the Oasis skin? - I think the skin is okay, but it does NOT suit a wiki, especially GTW. It will also cause a lot of problems, and ruin our identity.
 * 2) Do you think GTW should leave Wikia? - Yes, but only if the community are with us. Splitting the community in two, or only taking away the staff, would be disastrous for both forks.
 * 3) If we moved, would you move with us, rather than staying on gta.wikia.com? Yes - it is absolutely imperative that we all move together.

MAINEiac4434 22:44, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) It's meh, not really my thing. I could see how it would work for other wikis, though.
 * 2) I'm actually 50-50 split on this. There are some good reasons to go, but also some good reasons to stay. If I had to choose, I'd say leave Wikia.
 * 3) I would move with you, wholeheartedly.

A-Dust 23:06, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) I think that the skin looks horrible, worse than the current Wikia preferred option (which I also do not use). The skin will take away the identity of GTW and create a layout that could be any other wiki.
 * 2) Yes and I suggested the possibility when they introduced the now outgoing skin a while back.
 * 3) Yes.

I didn't like some of the things i read about the new changes. When these changes take place i will be leaving. I will follow GTW if it moves and i hope that it does. Jaceysdad 23:20, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) Horrible
 * 2) Some good reasons to stay, but maybe it's time for independence
 * 3) Yes.

Kanzler31 23:32, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Make your own domain grandtheftwiki.com like you said. I'd definitely move with you guys. Kyleneu 04:29, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Chimpso (Talk) 04:37, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Terrible, put's advertising first and contend/creative design last.
 * 2) I support the move. But I still think we should fight to keep the skin off us.
 * 3) Definetly

I have been going around many Wikia wikis leaving my input on a move:
 * 1) I hate the new Wikia skin (it is no longer called Oasis, just Wikia, oh, how imaginative!) It is hard to use, slow to load and fixed width is just evil!
 * 2) There are many good wiki farms. I plan to move Wikisimpsons to ShoutWiki and an old Wikia helper, Jack Phoenix, is a staff member there. Moving will be for the best.
 * 3) I am not a major contributor here. Made one or two edits. If you move to ShoutWiki, I will use that one over this one though.

I have got a list of positives and negatives about ShoutWiki here. Please read that as it may help make a decision. ☆ The   Solar   Dragon  ☆ 06:25, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

The Hole 13:02, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Bad.
 * 2) I prefer to leave.
 * 3) Definetly.


 * 1) I hate it with a passion (I was in the first batch of beta testers), and I have made an array of essays and blog posts against it. Essentially though, I don't see how this wiki will be able to go on without a sidebar with more than 4 menus, without a sitenotice, without half its content space and without a banner.
 * 2) ShoutWiki is looking into snatching Monaco and implementing it on their wikifarm before it gets nuked, and this means widgets will be back there. I'd suggest setting up a donation fund to pay for a server and a domain if you're self-hosting, but admins and users will get more access to the database - and you can mould the wiki however you want it (user right names can be incredibly original).
 * 3) I will be quitting Wikia altogether. It's sad, but I can't do anything about it. Even though I have hardly edited here, I read this wiki a lot. I'll definitely become a full time editor when GTA V is announced and that will hopefully be when you guys have a new wiki. Just remember that you will have to make sure this old wiki does not change for the worse while everyone is gone.

19:09, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

1. The new skin sucks

2. Yes you should move

3. Yes I might have just joined but I'll always be loyal to the true GTAwiki

Leaving
because, do not leave this site at wikia.

So, this place will be completely dead?
Am I understanding this correctly? This place will beasically become a tomb with no updates due to this new skin?

Okay, that's fair enough and I will not begrudge you the right to such a course of action. Especially if the monkeys on this site, in their ivory towers, insist of forcing a new skin upon us.

But please clarify something, if we abandon this place. Will there be another GTA database we can all contribute to? With all the articles we've made here?

I simply cannot stomach the idea of leaving this place and yet having nowhere else to go. A lot of people have put in a lot of effort here. It would be a massive shame to just give up. So, any clarification will be much appreciated and hopefully sweeten the bitter pill.

Thanks!

IdesofMarch 13:16, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying, friend. And it goes without saying that when the move comes, I'll go along too. There is no point sticking with a site that doesn't respect its users and claims to listen to them whilst flatly ignoring all of their concerns and fears. This community of ours is a great thing, all of us are drawn together by a common love of the greatest series of games ever created (In my mind at least) and it would be very regrettable if there was a deep, irrepairable schism simply because this site is ran by fools. IdesofMarch 13:42, October 4, 2010 (UTC)IdesofMarch
 * The idea is that we would move to a new site, taking a copy of all content with us. However, some people might stay here and continue to run this copy. This is why we want to make sure everyone comes over to the new site, rather than trying to run two wikis in competition with each other. Gboyers talk 13:33, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Randomtomato 15:55, October 4, 2010 (UTC) Would like to see you move away from Wikia as that skin is just stupid, although i would like to see GTW in the Wikipedia-esque format because its easy to use. Randomtomato 15:56, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Monobook, the skin formerly used by Wikipedia, and Vector (Wikipedia's new skin) will be both available to anyone self-hosting and using the latest MediaWiki software. 19:12, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

This sounds like a good idea to me.

 * 1) I really haven't liked a lot of Wikia's recent changes and I hope we can find somewhere better or else just self host. I really don't think the Oasis skin is a good skin for wikis though. I wonder if we could get in withGTANet somehow?
 * 2) I guess I really think we should leave Wikia behind. I'm sure we could do better elsewhere. It probably doesn't help that the subjects of this wiki are not as family friendly, so they don't even want us here.
 * 3) I'll be sure to go wherever you go.

ZedoMann 20:30, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

UPDATE: 3 Wikis already left
Club Penguin Wiki, Apple Wiki and Casualty wiki have left. Soon, more wikis will either: Move to another Wiki farm, or create their own site. Any thoughts on the exodus ahead? Kanzler31 22:53, October 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * We are toying with the idea. I want to make sure we make the right decision for THIS wiki and its community, not just blindly follow others without thinking carefully about the consequences. There is still time for Wikia to make this right, and that would be the simplest option for everyone. Gboyers talk 00:07, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Go for it!
We should leave Wikia. I have checked out the new skin and it dosen't look all great. I enjoy this current skin anyway. If you leave, I will go to the new site. Just make sure that you let everyone know when the exodus will take place.Klltr 00:39, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Hard decision

 * 1) This skin is like our identity, why should we get it taken by wikia.Of course wikia would like it they're all for tidyness and stuff like that.
 * 2) This is where its hard if we stay all kinds of problems will arise, however if we go the 2nd fork will probably get more popularity than us.However I think we should move.
 * 3) Hell yeah!

Please stay on Wikia
The information for everything on this site is very valuable for my videos. Also it's cool to read all of the trivia. But if you leave gta.wikia.com, I will go with you as well.

ZDUPH 10:09, October 5, 2010 (UTC)ZDUPH


 * You can still put videos on our new site (if that's what you meant), and all the trivia will be there as well. Chimpso (Talk) 10:16, October 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes - we are not closing down, we would just be moving to our own website away from Wikia. Gboyers talk 11:43, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Do it
More than anything else, we can't just let Wikia push us around. We need to be aggressive! Maybe then other wikis will follow our example. Sgt. S.S. 17:16, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

I think were all ready.
I like it to be honest. Its pretty natural If they need to, everything needs to grow wings and fly. Its a risk. But due to the growth of population in Grand theft auto. I think we can. I would move with you guys because you give us alot of information and is a fun website to be on.
 * 1) What do you think of the Oasis skin?
 * 1) Do you think GTW should leave Wikia?
 * 1) If we moved, would you move with us, rather than staying on gta.wikia.com?

I have one question: What will the new website be called? TheJustinAllenK 20:58, October 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Probably grandtheftautowiki.com/net, gtawiki.com/net.


 * We'll let you know, don't worry. Chimpso (Talk) 00:14, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Move to neoseeker?
Neoseeker already have their own GTA Wiki. Anyone think we can merge with them? Kanzler31 22:08, October 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * No. We should become our own website, with nothing else holding us down. MAINEiac4434 00:11, October 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) Does not feel right.


 * 1) I really dont care,but if GTW does I think it'll be harder to find us


 * 1) Absolutely

GTA Wikia is really, Truly, my most favorite wikia.

Reasons Why you should stay:

I use gta wikia to hat important photos for Guns, Cars, Radio Stations, And Locations. And without gta wikia, I don't know anywhere else that provides such amazing, knoledgable information on gta wikia if there's anything that I can do to help keep the information on this site intact, I'd do it so if you need assistance, go to my talk page on my profile.

I sometimes just like to explore this wikia, and I've learned so much more about gta than I actually could playing it. And if you do move, I would really like to be told on when, or where you will be moving, this is an amazing site with great gta information. It's my lifeline to gta pictures, mysteries, and information.--Lee R. Writer of Catsville Series, & eventual cv game.


 * We're not closing down, just moving away from wikia. You'll be able to do all the things on the new wiki that you can do here. We'll let you know when and where we are moving when we are ready. Chimpso (Talk) 00:56, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Ghost Leader's 2 Cents
1. What do you think of the Oasis skin?
 * I don't like it at all.

2. Do you think GTW should leave Wikia?
 * If it means GTW remains about the users and content of the site instead of advertisements, then yes, I would support the move.

3. If we moved, would you move with us, rather than staying on gta.wikia.com?
 * You bet I'd move with you.

Ghost Leader 07:41, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

My two cents
For occasions like this, I prefer to watch from the sidelines unless I am asked to help, but I do have some beef with Wikia central regarding the quality of generated thumbnails; after thumbnails were rendered in poor quality again last month, I've attempted to contact staff members repeatedly, but I've failed to receive any response. It's not enough to have me raging to leave, but it does show how ignorant staff members may be to the point they even ignore your messages to them. The fiasco with Oasis may also be, in part, a result of this problem.

I'm not fond of uprooting myself to another wiki, but I can migrate when the situation demands it. I have contributed heavily to Wikipedia years ago (just when I simultaneously wrote my first articles in this very Wikia), but when stringent copyright guidelines saw much of my screenshot deleted en masse, I was spurred to simply leave Wikipedia behind and move to Wikia. If Wikia is hell bent on pushing forward a heavily commercial-driven web design that impedes the presentation of an article, there is no doubt that I will move to a better wiki, especially one that is readily forked from Wikia.

Still, I'm not going to say if I'll leave or not. I'll just wait and see. - ZS 09:11, October 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * To add to my first bit, the thumbnail lightbox is also something that I've never liked. While it can be argued that it's for user friendliness, it would had been better if they had an option to disable it for those who do not have a need for it. I've recommendation this option to a corresponding blog post, but I've never been referred back to. That was the first sign that Wikia is screwing up. - ZS 09:43, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

My Answers
1. What do you think of the Oasis skin?

i think its a sleeker look, but much less efficient :(

2. Do you think GTW should leave Wikia?

well thats up to the admins i suppose but under these circumstances, yes i think you should move it.

3. If we moved, would you move with us, rather than staying on gta.wikia.com?

without thinking twice, yes i will be apart of the new wiki if you move! Mega Hyper Nova 09:21, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Input on situation
1. New Layout -- Meh.

2. Independence from Wikia -- Go for it.

3. Loyalty -- New Grand Theft Wiki FTW.

--Gsu eagle 31049 15:55, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

1. Rubbish. Too web 2.0 in appearance only. Ruins the look and feel of the site. 2. Absolutely. If they didn't even give us the option to keep the old theme, and possibly to pay a small fee to stop adverts (which I would gladly pay) then clearly they look out only for their own interests. 3. Sure. I love this whole series of games, and I especially enjoy the community that's been created on this site.


 * Wikia give small wikis the choice to pay a small fee to disable adverts. However, since we are quite a large wiki, they make a lot more money from us, so they don't give us that option. Gboyers talk 19:55, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

A comment from Wikia
Hi all, I just wanted to comment on the thought that you won't be able to give this wiki a distinctive look. I've been looking at backgrounds and color schemes over the last few days... the new Theme Designer makes it very easy to create something individual. There are so many wallpapers out there that would make a fantastic background for the wiki. If you'd like help with that, please let me know.

And on a more general note, I just want to say that I hope you will stick around on Wikia. It's a big change that we are going through, but I honestly believe that it will result in a better Wikia for GTA and all communities here. -- Sannse (help forum | blog) 18:39, October 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your input - I appreciate your work over the years, and I have enjoyed being part of Wikia, but this is a bit deeper than you seem to be making out. I understand the level of customisation available, however this is only a tiny part of the issue. The smaller content area, image uploader usernames in articles, adverts getting more and more priority over content, the demotion of our logo to being the size of a page title, the wiki navigation being invisible compared to the wikia navigation, the talk page button being tiny, the history button being hidden away - these issues are all worth kicking up a fuss over. With this feedback being ignored by Wikia en-masse, there is a big lack of trust and it can probably be safe to say you won't change these things ever, and will probably bring in worse changes and even more adverts in the future. It's not a case of "getting used to it", it's that the content and community will be worse than it is now. If the suggestion is that we can't leave, then we would be entirely at the mercy of Wikia, and that's not why we're here. There are dozens of users just on this page that have expressed deep dissatisfaction - not just with the new skin but with Wikia as a whole. How can you justify ignoring it? As the leader of this community, I can not ignore its voice. Gboyers talk 19:52, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Changed my mind
Guys, I think you're overreacting a little. It's honestly not a big deal, and certainly not worth leaving Wikia over. Yes, the layout will be altered, but underneath it all, we'll still be the old GTA Wiki.

I'd like to rebut a couple of points, as well: Seriously, leaving won't accomplish anything. The skin will take some getting used to, like the new one on Wikipedia. I didn't like the new Wikipedia skin at first, but now I've adapted to it, it's fine for me. It'll be the same deal here.
 * "Wikia will remove our CSS customisation options. All we can customise are a pre-determined set of colours and backgrounds. We are unable to have our distinctive banner or similar big logos or customisations." We will still have customisation options, certainly enough to make the wiki distinctive, anyway.
 * "This skin removes Grand Theft Wiki's identity, and just makes us look like part of one central Wikia site" Guys, we are part of Wikia Gaming. Why would we want to look different to Wikia if we're part of Wikia?
 * "The entire top section of every page is about Wikia and linking to other Wikia sites. The Grand Theft Wiki logo and our navigation is placed part-way down the page, making it a lot less obvious" We are part of Wikia, so I feel it's only right that we link to other wikis. Our navigation still works, doesn't it? Regardless of how "obvious" it is?
 * "The talk page button is now hidden. It's a tiny icon near the search bar, completely separate from the edit button." Does it still link to the talk page? Yes? Then what's the problem?

So, in conclusion, are we going to act like a bunch of children over this, or are we going to be mature, and just give it a go? Sgt. S.S. 18:54, October 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * I absolutely understand your point. When Monaco came in, it took a bit of getting used to, but we saw it was for the better. That is not the case with Oasis, which has so many major flaws and will not benefit us. As for being part of wikia, I strongly disagree. We are our own wiki, our own community. We were created separately, and will continue to be separate. Wikia is our host, and a network to which we affiliate, and it has brought us many benefits. However, those benefits are being outweighed by the problems, disrespect and lack of control this community has in its own content. It's not like we're just a group of pages on Wikipedia, we are our own website with our own customs, culture, leaders, helpers, policy and lots of other things - we still deserve our identity. Not every wiki has a strong community like ours. The navigation might technically work, but if people can't see it easily, they won't use it, so it doesn't work. As for the talk page button, it no longer encourages users to discuss articles, it's only there if people know it is. I know it's there and I still have trouble finding it when I want to discuss an article. There are many other issues (see my reply to Sarah above) which I think are worth being upset about, and the voice of this community is clear - they don't want it. We've tried it out, we've given feedback, and Wikia have ignored us. I do not want to be on a site where the feedback of thousands of users is just ignored and dismissed out of hand. Gboyers talk 19:52, October 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I Also can understand this guy, but the Wikipedia example wasn't the best. One note: The new skin is optional and wasn't that bad (in fact I like it) while on the other hand, Oasis is MANDATORY, and it is a terrible, ugly looking skin.Kanzler31 22:40, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Stay
The skin isn't even that bad, creating your own site will just cause you problems and eventually it's just going to fail, just stay on wikia. The Tom 19:55, October 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * What makes you so sure we'd fail at our own site? Plus Wikia doesn't even like us here.
 * "...and complete disrespect for this wiki and its community." ZedoMann 00:04, October 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * ZedoMann is right - if enough people move over to the 'new' site, then we'll be absolutely fine. We'll have all the content, images and even user accounts from here, plus whatever skin, extensions and settings we want. Those that choose to stay will find themselves editing an empty wikia, with almost all of the regular users agreeing to move with us to be away from Wikia and run this site properly. If we stay, we'll all just be under the thumb of Wikia, and the many unhappy users will just leave altogether. I'm just trying to do the best thing for this wiki and this community. If staying at Wikia turns out to be the better option, then that's what we will do. Gboyers talk 00:35, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

I've Also Change My Mind
this editor is pretty easy to use, i know because i'm an admin of my own wiki, My Wiki, and its not just pre-determend colors you can insert any hex code you want, so there is a bit of customization to this but i really think the staff should give us more options, like maybe an update? anyways i'm staying i like the look i gave my wiki, oh and backgrounds are also customizable :) Mega Hyper Nova  22:44, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

My Answers
--Hehe5 04:29, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1. I think it works for some wikis, but not the GTA Wiki. With all out tables, galleries and single images, it would be too squishes.
 * 2. Yes, but only if we regain traffic.
 * 3. I would definitely move.

skin
I hate this skin so I am moving away from this wiki as soon as the option to use Monaco is removed. -- PK2PK2 08:20, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

To answer the questions...
Sgt. S.S. 16:35, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) I think the new skin is okay, the only real problem I have with it is the longer load times.
 * No, not at all. Leaving won't accomplish anything. Plus, if Wikia wouldn't close gta.wikia.com, it might even be counter-productive.
 * 1) I don't want you to leave, but if push came to shove, I suppose I'd move with the community.


 * Technically, leaving will acomplish a lot. We will have full control over our wiki, we will be able to customise every aspect of the wiki, not tied down by wikia regulation and staff. We will be our own wiki, and many people will move with us instead of staying on this copy, which will hardly see any activity. Chimpso (Talk) 01:46, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

It does look junked up. I didn't spend a lot of time looking at it, but I can see the problems. Yes. A big fail on wikia's part for not understanding the concept of wikis--content created by users for users. Not listening to member feedback on future direction is like cutting their own throat. Of course support the new site. Again, the people who come to the gta wiki for info often contribute. I imagine most people would go to the new site, word would spread quickly and google results would change relatively quickly too. Yaksox 05:25, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) What do you think of the Oasis skin?
 * 1) Do you think GTW should leave Wikia?
 * 1) If we moved, would you move with us, rather than staying on gta.wikia.com?

screw the oasis skin, how dare they. dont be forced to leave this wiki, use a petition and make a certain amount of people to sign it! good luck... dont give up!Jzawo 06:45, October 8, 2010 (UTC)je if you were to move, send me the http/address to my email englishjzawo@y7mail.com, i love gta wiki and im stuck to it!

We'll let you all know when we move. Chimpso (Talk) 08:05, October 8, 2010 (UTC)